Rebecca (00:00.759)
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Champagne Lounge podcast. Today I'm joined by the wonderful Alicia Hancock. Welcome to the show, Alicia.
Alecia Hancock (00:10.095)
Thank you so much for having me back. It's great to catch up and get a chance to have a bit of a chat.
Rebecca (00:16.087)
I'm excited by this one because you and I have known each other a while, but we've both changed directions a couple of times over the last, dare I say decade, that we've known each other. And that's kind of where I want to start really in today's conversation because whilst you're still predominantly working within the not -for -profit sector, like what has been your journey for that? Because when you and I met, you were very much in traditional agency model, so was I.
Alecia Hancock (00:39.854)
Hmm.
Rebecca (00:45.079)
And now we're both very much doing personal brand and doing things very differently. So what's been that journey for you going from agency model and interpersonal brand and why the not -for -profit space?
Alecia Hancock (00:51.278)
So many questions in that. Where do I even start? So look, I feel like shifting story has been a really big pattern in my life. You know, if you go right back to the beginning, like I was a journalist and a magazine editor. I ran a record label for a few years. Like I've done lots of different things and been in lots of different kind of industries.
Rebecca (00:58.999)
Hehehe!
Alecia Hancock (01:20.366)
And I think, you know, there's that evolution and change where it all makes sense to me how I've kind of ended up where I am, but it's not always that traditional logical trajectory. I mean, the reality is when I studied journalism at uni, it's like social media and digital marketing didn't even exist. So who knew that I was going to, exactly who knew I was going to end up in this space? So you, I think it's great to embrace the fact that you end up in unexpected places.
Rebecca (01:38.583)
Not when I did it either.
Alecia Hancock (01:49.134)
So as you said before, so I had my own company with Hancock Creative. I ran that for, or now can I remember, over 11 years. COVID took its toll because obviously we worked in the nonprofit space, we were really hit hard by COVID and ended up having to make that really difficult decision to go into insolvency with the company, which was really hard, really emotional, pretty much spent the next four months.
in one long doona day with a doona over my head going, hides in the world. And it took me a little bit of time and came about from a lot of people starting to reach out to me going, you know, well, here's all the great things you've done for us and we'd still love you to help us. And that's where kind of that, I can't even say second act because it's probably my sixth or seventh act came.
where I've moved into, like you said, the more personal brand space where people are just coming to me going, we would love you to come and speak. We would love you to consult with us on this project. We'd love to work with this. And then last year kind of going, I really want to take that step and actually figure out exactly who I am and what I'm doing. And that was awesome for me because I ended up having this kind of breakthrough where I realized the culmination of kind of everything around working in.
the entertainment industry, as a journalist, interviewing famous people. My career in the nonprofit space kind of ended up all coming together. And I've now developed this new thing, which I called the story science method, which just takes all those different elements of the things I've learned through my career and turns it into an actual model that I can follow. And that's been really exciting because it's kind of like pulling all those pieces together of that career. so the last part of your question, why nonprofit?
always just been really driven by the need to have a good reason to get up in the morning. I want to know that I'm doing something that's actually important. I've had jobs and I've had work where I'm like, why am I even doing this? Like, I don't feel like I'm contributing anything or doing anything. I think when I get to work with nonprofits and good causes, whatever they look like, whether that's Victorian roller derby league I've just been working with or,
Alecia Hancock (04:01.582)
the charity that is helping orphan children in Africa. I enjoy that work and I love the idea that helping them tell their stories have meaning. It helps people, it makes a difference, it actually makes the world a little bit of a better place than it was before I woke up this morning.
Rebecca (04:19.575)
Yeah, I love that. It's so important to know, to know your why for it to give you that spring in your step, which ultimately gets you through even the deepest of darkest times. Right. So that that not for profit sector has been that conduit for you from agency through to personal brand now. And before we dive into the story side of things, because there's so much we can talk to around story and connection, given the current economic climate for at the moment for all of us, you know, what was
What, if you're able to share, like, what was the bit for you that you went, okay, I think enough's enough and I'm going to have to pull the pin on this site because we hold onto these things. Was there a moment where you went, I can't hold it any longer. I've got to let it go. Or I know a lot of people are in the boat now are going to be in a similar, similar space going, do I let it go? Do I not let it go? Like, what was the decision process for you? And who did you call upon actually for help with that? Yeah.
Alecia Hancock (04:59.182)
Mmm.
Alecia Hancock (05:11.054)
my gosh.
I mean, it's easier to talk about down than it was at the time when it was all very, very fresh. But I saw a saying once and I thought it was just a perfect description of this, you know, things like insolvency or business closing. It happens slowly, slowly and then all at once. And I just think that is such a good description of like slowly, slowly things chip away and you get past a challenge.
You do with that and you move forward and then something else happens and it's kind of never really one thing. It's lots of little things over time that get you into that position where you're like, you know, where do I want to go with this? For us, obviously the reason those little things started happening was COVID. It hugely impacted the nonprofit sector. So when you think about the fact nonprofits include zoos.
art galleries, museums, non -profit cafes. We had clients that obviously were relying on paying our bills with income from a fun run or an activity they were doing and that just all disappeared overnight. We were forgiving debts left, right and center. Obviously we had office space, I had a team to pay, you know, there were so many different factors in that. And I'm incredibly proud that we actually got through that phase because at the time, if I had made that decision,
in the middle of COVID, my team would not have found other jobs. They would have struggled. Everybody would have been in a pretty difficult position. We got through the worst of that and then kind of went, what's going on with the sector now? And it had just changed the space so dramatically that I knew the model we had wasn't going to be sustainable for the future. And there were probably a few factors for me in that. So,
Alecia Hancock (07:00.238)
kind of having one of those days where I looked at the long -term cash flow and just went, you know, it's going into the red and there's 53 things that I've tried before and 53 things I could try again, but none of them really made that shift confidently to keep going. And then looking at the future and going, even if we do find that way to make it through this hurdle, this is not the future of this industry and this particular business. It's not the way it's going to go forward.
the other element for me was my own health journey. like you, I struggled with autoimmune disease and my health was declining through COVID stress, all those kinds of things. my health was getting worse and worse. And in hindsight, that was a really good call because I can no longer work full time, let alone the hours I did before. so it was kind of all of this came together, but as they said, it kind of happened all at once that we just looked at this cashflow and went, I don't know.
the right answer to turn that around. And I'd never had that before. There'd always been a, well, we can just do, tweak that thing and get through that next bump. And it was that moment where I really went, okay, well, where is this going long -term with the market shift? And I didn't have the answer. And that was the moment where I went, I need to have some serious discussions here. And then it happened very, very quickly. So in terms of who I reached out to,
I was very lucky I had an amazing team, a full -time operations manager who went through that whole journey and process with me of iterating those ideas. I had a great accountant and we reached out to an insolvency accountant, contacted his and met with them and had that discussion of what it could look like and kind of went through that process of talking to other friends and mentors in the space.
who all kind of said to me, you know, you've already put in so much more effort and time and work and hours that anyone thought possible. You've already overcome things you shouldn't have been at or overcome. Yeah. Maybe you're at that point now where if you keep doing that, it's not going to be healthy anymore. So yeah, slowly, slowly, and then all at once.
Rebecca (09:09.687)
Mm.
Then really fast. And it's watching those warning signs and having that support network where you can actually go, yeah, I've got to pull the pin on this. I know I'm not alone in doing it and giving yourself the grace of that four months of doodadays. Like I've been talking to a lot of conversations around sometimes you just need to sit and have a sofa day and let it all wash over you and get up the next day and go again. Yeah.
Alecia Hancock (09:26.286)
Yeah.
Alecia Hancock (09:33.39)
Yeah, absolutely. And it took me a while to give myself that grace. There was definitely that phase of like I failed people because especially because I was so driven by purpose with the nonprofit and when the news kind of officially broke, I actually, like we had an article in the newspaper, you know, we did post on LinkedIn and I actually kept all of the comments that we received from everybody, the emails, the LinkedIn thing. I couldn't read them at the time.
But I sent it to the team and in hindsight, looking back over it, there were so many comments and stories of, well, you did this for us five years ago and now because of that we're here and you helped us achieve this. And it made me realize that the ending wasn't necessarily, yeah. So like, I looked at it going, well, that's the only thing I have now is a failed.
Rebecca (10:19.639)
the end.
Alecia Hancock (10:26.67)
know, enterprise, you know, it was a failure because it went into insolvency. And that was mainly around the fact that we had actually brought on investors because we were planning to expand to New Zealand. Six weeks after COVID hit Australia, we were doing our first New Zealand event, and we'd also raised money to expand to the US as well. So we were in a really high growth trajectory phase when
you know, COVID happened and obviously none of those things happened. So it really completely transformed where we thought we were going and how things were going to look. So yeah, it's a tough one, but it took me a little while to get past that, that end piece has been the end of the story and realized that actually it's just because that happened because of COVID doesn't affect all the incredible things that we achieved over 11 years. You know, we created the biggest nonprofit conference in Australia.
I trained thousands and thousands of people around the world for free, supported a lot of organizations. We gave out well over a million dollars in grants to organizations who couldn't afford training, had some amazing partnerships. So in reflection, I think it's really great to give yourself that grace of going, but look at all the things we did achieve, even if things don't quite end up where you wanted them to.
Rebecca (11:45.047)
Yeah, very much so. And I think that's a big takeaway, even though we're halfway through the episode, that big takeaway of give yourself the grace to feel the things and look back at what the successes were, not just focus on what most people would deem a failure because failures are lessons and they're just chapters. They're just chapters in the story. And I know from there, you said you've...
developed new storytelling techniques as part of that to share your whole story because you know it's not just a siloed piece at the time it's not just a laser focus on one small element of a brand story or a personal story there are so many layers and different ways to share exactly what you do why you do it and how you do it so what has been that process for you to build up that thinking and that thought process?
Alecia Hancock (12:32.046)
Yeah, I remember the first time I actually went on stage at one of my events and shared some of my personal journey and experience and how terrifying that was and actually how well received that transparency and vulnerability was. And I know you went through a similar journey yourself, really just embracing who you are and telling a lot more of your story. So, but I always find it fascinating that.
lenses we can tell our story through. Whereas I think sometimes we get really focused on, you know, I'm this one thing and telling that one aspect, like if you're a personal brand or, you know, the champagne lounge or, you know, whatever it might be, you focus on that. Whereas actually there's so much more to how you got there and why you do what you do. So, you know, I can focus on telling the story to people about dealing with a
chronic incurable autoimmune disease and the impact that has on me and how that has changed and evolved my life. So that can be an angle I could talk to and be known for. Like I can talk about being neuro -spicy and that I'm being the mum of a child on the autism spectrum. And I could, you know, that's a whole other story and process and journey that I've been through personally and as a parent. And I can share that with my audiences.
You know, I can talk about the business closing down in COVID. I can talk about my early career where I traveled around the world and I interviewed celebrities and, you know, I've got plenty of photos of me with famous people and I've interviewed, you know, Adele and Sylvester Sloan and Matt Damon. And, you know, I had that whole section of my life and I could be telling that kind of flash story. And like when I was editing a fashion magazine and the exotic.
first class trips I got taken on. And you know, so each of those stories really just give people a completely different impression of who I am and what I believe. But when you start to put it all together, then it really actually creates something that's not so two dimensional, that's actually a little bit deeper and more three days. So I love the fact that you have this podcast, you're sharing the stories of so many amazing women doing.
Alecia Hancock (14:42.926)
different things all over, you know, cities around Australia and rural areas as well. Because I think it's such a powerful thing to do that we kind of see somebody's story from one aspect, but we don't always get to hear some of that nitty gritty truth that goes behind that. So yeah, for me, I, that's kind of where the story of science method comes from is the combination of understanding what it takes to tell a good story and.
knowing how to do that for an organization because some people go, well, I'm not that exciting because I haven't, you know, I haven't interviewed that famous person or I haven't got that, you know, tragic backstory that some people kind of a lot of personal brands seem to have in their background. So they're like, I'm not that interested. But one of the things I love with the work I do with clients is once you start digging into their brand or their organization or the nonprofit,
It's amazing how many genuine powerful stories there are, because they don't have to be huge. They can be small. And that's for me where I kind of went, I want to turn this into some kind of model that people can follow and know, well, what are actually the steps you have to go through in order to, you know, create a powerful story. And for me, I always say it boils down to something quite simple, which is you've just got to tell the right story to the right people in the right place at the right time.
And the big part I've added probably in the last 18 months is in the right way. So I've spent a lot of time studying neuroscience, as strange as that sounds, to understand how our brains are wired because we almost need to hack the human brain because we actually absorb stories in a certain way. We keep our focus in a certain way. We keep our attention and it's all like hormones and the different ways our brain actually works. And if you can understand some of that.
you can tell these compelling stories that actually make people go, I want to know more. So I love that. And I get very nerdy about storytelling. Like as you say, I can talk about it all day.
Rebecca (16:39.927)
Yeah.
Rebecca (16:44.503)
Well, it's such a powerful medium, right? Like storytelling, and I guess, you know, it's from my side, the Champagne Lounge is built on the fact that people love conversations and you can learn a lot out of having a conversation with someone or hearing someone's story and learning how they dealt with a task or handled a situation. And my love of storytelling from video world has gone through into that. And as you said, it's in the podcast as well. And it's one of the reasons why I don't share what we're talking about on the podcast is...
you and I had a conversation with late last week was what are we talking about? I said like, it's you, that's what we got to talk about. There's nothing, we don't have to plan anything because for me, I know that stories flow. But if I get you telling the right thing in the right way, the energy comes out and the passion comes through. So I know you said it sounds easy to share the right story to the right people in the right way, at the right time, in the right place. Sounds like a lot.
Alecia Hancock (17:19.598)
Yeah.
Rebecca (17:38.807)
Right. Sounds like a lot of things and it's simple when you know the formula, but for anyone listening now, we work with regional solopreneurs that are out there going, okay, so what, what can I take from this to start finding my story or working out what part of me is interesting enough to share as a story? Where would you suggest that they begin in unpacking their whole life and their career and their business into short story segments?
Alecia Hancock (18:05.07)
I love that. That's stuff I get very, very nerdy about. So first of all, I do have a free short course that literally takes you through the steps. So we can link to that in the show notes if any of your listeners want to dive in and hear a little bit more about the process. But where I always start is with goals. So what do you want the future to look like? So when I come and work with a nonprofit or a brand from a consulting perspective, it's about
diagnosing, you know, what's going on now, what's working, what's not working in your kind of marketing or storytelling. But then it's like, okay, well, what's the future like, where do you actually want to be? So many people say, well, social media is not working for me or LinkedIn is not successful or my email marketing or my website or whatever it might be. There's no point blaming kind of the different elements or the platforms. It all comes down to do you have that clarity around what your future looks like?
And that's really important piece of the puzzle. So one of the first things I always say is look to your goals. Like if you said everything you did, the story you tell, your marketing, your communication was wildly successful for the next 12 months, describe to me what's changed for you a year from now. And that's often people like, Ooh, I've never really thought about it that way. So.
I love kind of getting into that because it's like, well, then you start to actually understand not just goals like, I want to get more followers on Facebook or I want to get, you know, more people to my website. You start to get the stuff like, I want to, you know, have more free time or I want to have more financial freedom or I want to be having this impact or this creating this change for this community. You start to get those stories. I was like, well, what does that actually look like? Does that mean you've helped more people or?
Does that mean, you know, and you start to get to some really solid metrics of going, okay, well, success is actually that you've, you know, doubled the number of, women that you helped with your business, in that year or the number of new conversations you've created or the number of people using your service or your free programs or whatever that might be. So I always start with the goals because you can't tell a story without knowing where you want to send people. Stories have a beginning, a middle and an end.
Alecia Hancock (20:19.502)
It's like trying to write a book, kind of not knowing where you're going and what the end looks like and what the story is about. You're going to ramble around in so many winding circles. So we kind of want to know what that end picture looks like before we even start at the beginning. From there, I always go to audiences like biggest mistake, nonprofits, small businesses that we all make is not understanding our audience well enough and close enough. And.
Too many of us fall in the trap of these kind of audience, kind of bio descriptions, which is so broad. Like we want to talk to women between the ages of 30 and 55 who live in all of these areas. And it's such a big group of people. It's like, well, what makes them? Yeah, it doesn't. Particularly in 2024, like in the world of social media and digital, you just can't tell a really compelling story that's going to appeal to widely different audience groups.
Rebecca (21:01.815)
Trying to be all things to all people doesn't work. It just doesn't. Yeah.
Alecia Hancock (21:16.878)
because they have different priorities, different needs, different financial situations. So you really do have to know who you're trying to attract and that comes from your goal. Like, what am I trying to achieve? Well, now I know who I actually need to talk to to achieve that. But I'm big on then diving into that. Like we actually need to understand that as a real human being. I give them faces and names and write a story about a person and then go write everything you're, when you tell a story you are talking to.
Amy or Abdul or this person. And I want you to talk about that person in your brand all the time. So you know who you're talking to and why that matters. And that helps clarify like, what do I say and where do I say it? Because that's when you can go, well, obviously we know that Amy based on her age and interest, they're going to hang out on these social platforms. We're going to know that Amy struggles with his problems. So she's going to be really interested in content about solving that problem.
And then we can start to then take, as you said, all those disparate bits of your story and your experience and your journey and work out what is that one kind of key message that you need to get across. And then from there, start to split it back out again of going, well, here's all the content you can tell over time. Here are the key messages and stories that you want to keep coming back to. Because too many of us, when it comes to our storytelling is we're throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping.
the right bits will stick and that just doesn't work. You know, we have to have that clarity and that's where the clarity comes from.
Rebecca (22:46.999)
No.
Rebecca (22:50.551)
And it sounds, you know, if you're listening to this and you think, my gosh, that sounds like a lot, you know, it's, it is a lot to understand at the beginning, but once you've got it down pat, it makes creating content and telling stories so much easier and engaging your target market in terms of content that's going to compel them to connect with you and ask questions and ultimately become a client, right? Become a client, become an advocate for your brand or your service and
So it sounds meaty and it is a meaty piece of work to get done, but we're gonna link to the show notes of the process and the formula so you can follow it because once you've nailed it, the whole idea of content creation and sharing stories and having those scary conversations isn't that scary anymore.
Alecia Hancock (23:34.67)
Yeah, because it's so much easier to answer the questions. I get people all the time. Like I obviously travel internationally and speak and I always get someone who's like, should I be on TikTok? Or should I be doing this? Or should I, you know, I have this story and I'm not sure if I should tell it or not. And I'm always like, that's not the quick question you think it is. That actually comes back to, well, what's your goal and who's your audience? And that's how we decide what parts of your story you tell. So you're right. Once you kind of have those things clear, it's so much easier of going, you know,
Well, should I be on TikTok? Well, I want to achieve this from this audience and I want to take them on this journey to achieve this outcome. You know, is that person even there? Are they using it? Do I have the resources to do it? Does my story work in that style and platform? You can answer those questions incredibly easily. Whereas, you know, you and I have both been in that small business mode where we haven't kind of necessarily known that. And then it just feels like it's so overwhelming because everything's possible.
everything's a story, you could go in a million directions and probably half of them aren't wrong. But it generally tends to, what's the word, kind of almost hamstring you so much that you can't move forward because there's too many possibilities. I think the big part of story science for me is going, yes, there are a million possibilities and they all can be good, but based on where you are now and what you need to achieve.
These are the stories that are going to resonate with the people you want to. And this is the framework in which you're going to operate. And it just takes out so much of that uncertainty because you could just answer those questions faster and with a little bit more comfort and confidence that you're making decisions based on the right thing instead of just going, which bit stuck when I threw 30 posts out on social media, you know, did the one that worked really well actually do what I wanted it to? I don't know. What do you measure that against if you don't have a plan?
Rebecca (25:26.231)
Yeah.
Yeah, having a plan, having the clarity and having a framework, I think, definitely can take off a whole heap of stress. And we are a big fan of removing stress, stress and overwhelm and overload, all the things there. We want it to be a nice, easy, not easy, breezy, but like, let's have a plan and make sure that we're not doing work for the sake of doing work, but actually work that's going to convert into growing businesses. So I'm excited to link into the show notes that process and encourage you to go and check that out because...
Alecia Hancock (25:39.534)
Yeah.
Rebecca (25:58.167)
Alicia's work is fantastic. We've worked together for years and I know that there's a framework to follow. She's going to have it really in easy steps for you to follow. So I'm excited to link that to the bottom of the show. Before I let you go, I asked everyone on the show one question about the Champagne Lounge. You know, we're here for communication, conversation. What is it that you love about being part of this wonderful regional community?
Alecia Hancock (26:22.766)
I think it's the connection, like you said before, it's the conversations because the number of times, you know, I've jumped into a session with the lounge and, you know, everybody's mid conversation about something and I've been out to go, actually I've faced that challenge before, blah, blah, blah. Here's the three steps to fix that. And I've been able to just solve someone's problem in a second. But the flip side is also true that I've been in there and gone, I'm really struggling with this right now. Or I don't know where I'm going or this has been happening. And...
Sometimes it's just the support of other people going, yeah, I feel the same way and not feeling quite so isolated and alone. But sometimes it's also the person who's like, actually, that's totally my jam. That thing that you don't understand at all. This is what you need to do. Go and buy this software, use this system, set this up, do these three things and it just will solve all your problems. And you're like, wow, like instant, you know, solution. So.
It can be really isolating when you're a small business, if you're an entrepreneur, if you're working without a big team around you, if you're in regional areas or even like me living in Perth, you know, I'm so removed from where most of my clients are. I've got clients in New York and Malaysia and all around the country. It can be really isolating when you're not face to face. So having a community that you can go into and have that authentic.
real honest conversation, not just like, how are you? yeah, I'm great. Everything's fantastic. We're going, you know what? Today has been a bit stuffy. I've really been struggling with this and have people go, I get you. Like I'm having a good week right now, but I've had those bad weeks and this is how I got through it. I feel like that sense of community throughout my career has probably been one of the fundamental things that helped me achieve what I've been able to achieve.
Having people that I know I can tap on the shoulder when things have got tough and gone, I don't know how to get past this. And having someone that'll be able to go, I have been there, here's my model, and you can take that and use it to solve your problem. I think that's such a valuable thing and it's something so many people just don't have access to.
Rebecca (28:29.623)
Yeah, yeah, thank you. I think you hit all the key things there without any sort of, and about anything, any prompting whatsoever, because it is around those conversations and jumping in and going, you know, seeing what's being talked about at the time and being able to ask questions and give advice and give your input, regardless of whether you're there for five minutes or in the call for an hour. So I'm glad that's coming through and it's definitely having the impact that we're wanting it to have to reach.
Alecia Hancock (28:33.846)
I'm sorry.
Alecia Hancock (28:51.278)
Mm.
Rebecca (28:56.279)
more regional women and support more regional women through those connections and conversations. So thank you so much.
Alecia Hancock (29:01.166)
Yeah, and you're fu - sorry. As I was gonna say, and sometimes you find you're the helper, you're the one with all the answers one week, and next week it's the opposite, you're the one with no clue of what you're doing and everyone else is helping you, so it's so reciprocal and that's what I love.
Rebecca (29:15.415)
That's the beauty of it. That's the beauty of a conversation and the beauty of sharing stories, which brings us full circle to the importance of sharing stories, sharing who you are, being able to craft your story and share it with the right people in the right way. So I hope you've enjoyed hearing Alicia's story today and thank you for sharing it.
Alecia Hancock (29:33.902)
Thank you so much for having me back. Always great to chat with you.
