Rebecca (00:01.354)
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Champagne Lounge Podcast. Today I'm joined by my fabulous friend Donna McGeorge. Welcome to the show, Donna.
Donna (00:10.67)
for having me. Hello, it's so awesome to see you.
Rebecca (00:13.642)
I am so excited to talk on this show because some of your work and some of our conversations over the years have stuck with me a lot. Specifically your work from years ago around the 25 minute meeting to which I hold that very tightly. And that's why our podcasts run less than 25 minutes because attention spans, right? I'm just getting stuff done and making it quick and succinct. So by introduction, Donna, you obviously work in...
time and productivity from what I've just said, but give us in your own words, what is it that you do?
Donna (00:47.246)
think I help people have space for what's important and specifically space to choose. Too many of us spend a whole heap of time in a state of obligation. I have to do this, I have to do this, I have to do this, I have to do this. And so I love saying to people and helping people say, you know, you've got an opportunity now to choose what you want to do and have more space to feel like I'm leading a more choiceful life. For any of your listeners that ever have to attend meetings,
The best way to describe it is imagine if a meeting gets cancelled at the last minute. That feeling that you get for many people which is relief like a whole hour to do whatever I want, that's what I help people get more often more frequently and so that they can do all the things that nourish their soul and fill them with joy.
Rebecca (01:38.41)
which is what we want more of, right? Time to do all the things we wanna do with friends, with family, with travel, with pets, whatever that may be. What got you into that work? Like what led you to going, you know what, that's my calling, that's what I'm gonna go do.
Donna (01:40.366)
Right?
Donna (01:45.326)
Yeah, that's it. That's it.
Donna (01:54.574)
You know, I'd love to tell you there was this big aha moment, but it's been coming on so gradually since I was born. So I was born into a Navy family. Both my parents were in the Navy. My mom, back then, my mom had to leave as soon as she got married. That was the rules back then. And so I was raised in a Navy family with my dad, who's, he had a couple of really awesome mantras. One was, I'd rather be two hours earlier than five minutes late. Another was,
if it's predictable, it's preventable or manageable. And so I kind of grew up in a world where self -responsibility or internal locus of control was really strong. The world is what you create. He would not have meant that. He would not have meant to be a spooky woo woo as that sounds. But for him, it's like, you know, you're responsible for your stuff and whether that's your kit in the Navy or your stuff in the world.
And so I kind of grew up with that and then became amazed as I got older and you know, we did the whole Navy thing. We moved around a lot, nine schools in nine years. I had to be very adaptable, fit in fast, all that sort of stuff. And I got really amazed once I got into the workforce around how many people didn't think like I did. And that it was a bit of a revelation to them, some of the ways in which I thought and acted and did my world.
And so of course it started with training Donna, can you teach us what you do? And then it got to, hey, let's start writing some books about this to take it to a wider audience. So that's probably the short version of how I came to this work. And I truly believe I was born to it.
Rebecca (03:38.154)
Yeah. And you mentioned that you've got books there that you, and books being plural, you've written several of them around this topic. So, you know, from working within large organizations, even down to individuals, I know your work spans all of that. What are the key areas that you have worked in over that time? Like, I suppose, what are the books? Because that's the chapters, right, of what you've been working on. Yeah.
Donna (03:59.15)
Yeah, chapters of my life. So just to boast a bit, my 14th book will be released in August this year. And I always say to people, you know, I've done 14 books, but the first seven were shit. So don't go getting, don't thinking you'll get the complete works of Donna McGeorge, because I wrote, turns out you got to write seven rubbish books before you get to a half decent one. And so that
Rebecca (04:10.506)
Amazing.
Rebecca (04:23.914)
Darn it, don't say that, because I'm so excited to do my first one.
Donna (04:28.75)
you know maybe everyone else can write a first awesome book but for me it took me seven goes. Now you know I shouldn't be so self -deprecating on my own work because when I say to people who have bought my early books they go no no no I love my early books no no in fact one woman loves one of them so much she's like built a whole training program out of it and stuff with my love and permission but so the the first half of my life I wrote
first part of my writing experience I should say, I wrote about train the trainer and so that's kind of why I don't play in that space much anymore. I used to train trainers and facilitators and speakers and that sort of stuff. Then I started getting into leadership and management and then it got into productivity once I hit a mainstream publisher. So that's when I started answering or asking questions and then answering them with my books around what really bugs you about work and of course Meetings was the number one thing so that was the first book.
off the rank and really just around how do we just do fewer better meetings is really the gist of that book. And then the next thing that bugs people is they just don't have all the time in the day to do what they want, they have no energy, they just seem to be running from pillar to post. So I started researching what the, you know, living life according to the clock in your body, not the one on the wall. And so some of us are early birds, some of us are night owls, turns out about 80 % of us.
have our most mentally alert time at the beginning of the day of our work day. And so the first two hours came out of that, which is make better use of your most productive time. Then in COVID, I started to notice how many people were working from home and ending up doing 10 hour work days or 12 or 14 hour work days.
Rebecca (06:04.682)
Yeah.
Donna (06:19.246)
And so my, I think there's a new meme going around, my girl math around that was that if you think about a commute was about an hour to and from, doesn't matter really where you live in the world by the time you go door to door from, unless you're kind of working from home, which a lot of us do now, but in the olden days, you know, pre -COVID, would be about an hour to get out the door, commute to your workplace and get settled.
And I worked out that that was approximately 10 hours a week that people got back and they didn't do an awful lot with it. So that was the One Day Refund book, which is like, gee, if we're a bit more careful with our time, we could get back a whole day in our week.
Rebecca (06:59.562)
Yeah, you don't realize how long you spend in front of a computer and how, you know, particularly during COVID, you're right, we were spending so much time because what else was there to do? And then it was detrimental to everything else we had going on.
Donna (07:02.99)
Right?
Donna (07:13.774)
right and so this was a book about creating space and adaptive capacity. How do we build into our worlds the capacity to not just adapt to changing circumstances but to take advantage of changing circumstances. So we've got the mental capacity to go there's an opportunity and I want to jump on that whereas so often we're just so busy you know everyone wants a piece of us. In fact I can remember when you and I first met this was a little bit of your story that
Rebecca (07:41.33)
Yeah.
Donna (07:43.726)
I even think you said that phrase to me. I just feel like I can't go anywhere. Everyone always wants a piece of me, right? Never that piece though.
Rebecca (07:50.346)
Yeah, no, I remember us sitting down at one point and I think I wrote eight, if not nine, A4 pages of the task that I was doing. Yeah. And no wonder I was stressed and over it.
Donna (08:03.054)
listeners and viewers, I was horrified, just quietly horrified, I tell you. So they're probably, right? And that's when you go, maybe I do need an assistant. Maybe you do. Because what that tells me is you're not, for want of a better turn of phrase, you're not leading at the right level. So if you think about you leading your business, and you're the leader of your business, you were so in the doing of your business, you weren't leading.
Rebecca (08:08.234)
It was horrible. I was horrified myself when I'd seen it in paper. Yeah.
Yeah.
Donna (08:30.83)
you didn't have the space to lead your business. Which when any of us do lean in to leading our business, we typically make more money, just quietly. Yeah.
Rebecca (08:42.602)
Yeah, yeah, it's almost, what's on my thing here? Slow down to speed up is one of my post -it notes, yeah.
Donna (08:47.694)
Right yeah go slow to go fast one of my favorite magic I think we should get these on baseball hats or something like that right. So that was it Shree it's about time books and that's what got me on the bestseller list those books because they they went off like firecrackers just quietly and then I got a call out of the blue from my publishers saying hey have you heard of this chat gpt thing and I'm like yeah and they said do you feel like writing a book and being first to market around that sure I was having one of those I'll just say yes to everything days sure why not.
Rebecca (08:53.418)
We should. Yeah.
Donna (09:17.646)
they said great we need a manuscript in three and a half weeks. Now usually I get three and a half months to generate a manuscript. I said can I use ChatGPT to do the manuscript? They said sure and so I used it as my assistant and as I continue to use ChatGPT as my assistant and that one's gone gangbusters.
Rebecca (09:38.89)
Yeah. And so for within the ChatGPT, it's been a big conversation that we've been having inside of the Champagne Lounge in our virtual meetup. But I know it happens, the conversations around AI and using ChatGPT is ongoing. It's forever going to be ongoing as it's growing. So what did you focus on there for business owners to use it as a tool for productivity?
Donna (10:01.166)
Yeah, look, mostly in the area of content creation, although it's getting a bit clever, it's getting more and more clever every day, you know. So my 14th book, which is due out in August, is actually the second edition of this book. And it's so different to the first one. It's why it's kind of counting as nearly a whole new book. And so we just talked about the various roles it can play for you, either in your professional life or your personal life.
Rebecca (10:11.562)
It's at August, I think. Yeah.
Donna (10:28.27)
And then in this next edition, you know, so for example things like in my personal life, you know meal preparation advice on anything to a guide travel consultant all the time you're sitting on your own and going huh, I wonder how I do blah right well now you can just ask someone and in our professional lives For me, it was all the things that you don't do that often
so that when you do do them, they take up a lot of time. So in my case, doing job interview, job, job specs, or yes, that's the word I'm looking for job descriptions, job specs, recruitment, those kinds of things. I also don't update my website very often. And so getting copy for that sort of stuff. I found it's been incredible for those of us who are running.
Rebecca (11:00.394)
such as, yeah.
Rebecca (11:06.218)
Descriptions? Yeah.
Donna (11:23.63)
small business from anywhere we rely heavily on our written comms. So getting out and getting really good social media strategies done and writing newsletters. My warning on the label would be that it only gets you at best 80 % there. We all know like it's you can all spot the ones that have been written by so by chat GPT because the word crucial is used within the first two sentences.
Rebecca (11:41.706)
Thank you.
Donna (11:53.166)
And it usually opens with something like in today's fast -paced world, next sentence, it's crucial to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So you got to humanize and personalize your stuff as well. Yeah.
Rebecca (11:58.506)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rebecca (12:05.962)
Yeah, I am finding the tool particularly helpful. Now I've taken on the local magazine here, you know, just giving me a first draft of something that I can then go, okay, I put all my stuff in, it spits out a first draft and then I can take it and completely recraft it. But having that first draft done, game changer, would have taken me hours if not days.
Donna (12:13.646)
Right.
Donna (12:26.318)
It is, it's days. I'm going to say, you know, if I was rewriting the one day refund now, there'd be a whole chapter on AI and how we can give you back a whole day in your world. So for me, it's a little bit like I imagine I've got a, I call it an eager intern with a hangover. So I've got an eager intern sitting next to me that's dying to be helpful. And so I can turn to it and say, as if it was a human, I can say, hey, give me 10 blog ideas. And then can you do a bit of research into...
Rebecca (12:35.37)
Yeah.
Donna (12:54.094)
else is writing about this and potentially give me some Harvard links if possible because that's so you know reputable and then do a first draft of 10 blogs around those topics and then I can cherry pick which ones I want to do so I never ask it for one I always ask it for 10. Up the ante yeah yeah up the ante.
Rebecca (13:12.394)
10, I do five, so I might need to up the ante a little bit. Yeah, yeah. So for anyone listening now, the majority of our listeners are solo printers that are wearing many hats, doing lots of different things and listening that, you know, other than changing their meetings down to 25 minutes, you know, which is what we've been harping on about before, what are some of the starting points that they could do to help them with productivity?
Donna (13:38.03)
I always say start at the end of the day, which is often a bit counterintuitive when people are thinking like, you know, tomorrow I'm going to start being awesome. And I'm going to go, no, you're going to start it tonight. Like if you're listening to, if you happen to be listening to this podcast on your way home or in the evening or whatever, now's where you start. And what you do is a handful of things that will make tomorrow an easier day. So I always say do things that your future self will thank you for.
Rebecca (14:03.594)
Yes.
Donna (14:07.214)
So any of you with kids, if you've got kids, the first thing you want to do is right now go to your kids and say, what homeworks do you, give me all the notes out of your bag. Is there a sports carnival coming up? What do you got going on? So you can have them sorted. So their bags at the front door, their soccer boots if they need them are ready to go. Because we've all had that crazy running around like mad things in the morning trying to find stuff. And that sets everyone off on a bad day.
So what a handful of things you could do this afternoon. I call it an hour of power. It doesn't always take an hour, but I do an hour of power at the end of the day, sometime around four or five o 'clock. And all I'm doing are the things that are gonna make tomorrow awesome. I'm checking my meetings for tomorrow. If I'm driving somewhere, I'm checking the routes. I'm looking up, is there parking where I need to go? So I already know when I get there that I know I'm gonna be able to park. If I need to, I'm packing, I'm doing lunches the night before, meal prep, I'm planning my...
wardrobe. I never go to bed until I've planned what I'm going to wear the next day because contrary to how you know you stand in front of your wardrobe and contrary to all the evidence there you stand there and go I've got nothing to wear and that just it's an absolute game changer.
Rebecca (15:05.866)
Yeah.
Rebecca (15:17.45)
That's a game changer actually that one is planning it because when I don't do it, I find myself putting on five or six different outfits and go, no, none of this feels right at all. Not enjoying it. And it sets my day off wrong. So I do, I plan mine every day, regardless of what I'm doing the night before.
Donna (15:33.646)
Right, same. And I've got a little spot at the end of my wardrobe where I pull all the bits out. So I will have pulled out this accessory, pulled out this jacket, I got a black top underneath, pulled that all out. Now, you're only seeing the business end of my outfit. It's still active wear down below. Right, comfy and my mockies. I'm happy to share that. I've got my mockies on my feet as well. Even in Queensland, you sometimes need mockies. Right.
Rebecca (15:48.266)
Comfy, yeah?
Rebecca (15:53.514)
Fantastic.
well, you definitely need them in magic because I've got my eyes on right now.
Donna (16:00.558)
Look, I used to live in regional Victoria so I get cold, right? And so yeah, I have a little spot for it. Now, I might change my mind. I might get up in the morning and go, you know what, this feels like a Camilla day. And off I go and I'll grab a Camilla top instead of the black and white outfit I picked. But the point is, I don't start my day feeling fat and depressed and I've got nothing to wear and this is shit and I'm shit and everything's shit, which used to happen.
Rebecca (16:04.297)
Yeah.
Donna (16:27.246)
when I'd stand in front of my wardrobe and go, I got nothing to wear. Right?
Rebecca (16:32.842)
We've all been there Yeah, yeah, so that stuff on the home front do you do anything business specific for the following day other than check meetings? You know, you are someone that tidies the desk away You know make sure it's all I like it's like almost walking into the freshly made bed, right? Like it's I come into the desk and it's it's empty and it's a blank canvas ready to go
Donna (16:45.838)
Yes.
Donna (16:56.238)
Absolutely. I don't know whether it just grew out of working in corporates decades ago when the clean desk policy was a thing, but I nearly can't leave my office or if I do, I'm uncomfortable. So as I look around my office now, I look at my desk, anyone looking at it would probably go, tidy as, but there's just a few little pile of post -it notes I'm uncomfortable with and a little folder over on this side over here that I'm just a bit uncomfortable with.
And so I do, I make it my business. I pack everything down. I'll sometimes wipe it down. I take my coffee cups and drinking glasses away. So when I come in the next day, it is all good to go. I'm also a believer in the do it now thing. So often people, you'll come back from a meeting or you'll come back from something and you plonk stuff down. You think, I'll put that away later. I go five minutes spent now putting that stuff away makes for a super awesome.
end of the day without you know and otherwise the stuff just piles up. I've got plenty of mates who will go visit them and they'll be busy trying to shut the office door and they'll say I've been really busy with delivery and they've got like five suitcases they haven't unpacked yet. I don't know how they got that many clothes but anyway they've got suitcases they haven't unpacked, piles of materials everywhere just stuff and so I'm a big fan of the just do it now not later thing that little bit of time you spend now makes a huge difference.
Rebecca (18:06.282)
Wow. Yeah.
Rebecca (18:17.194)
Yeah.
Donna (18:21.326)
I manage my email really tightly. I have a zero inboxer. Good, good. Did you learn that from me?
Rebecca (18:27.786)
Me too. Yeah. But you know what? Do you know what I'm sad about with the inbox zero piece? A while ago, years ago now, when he got to inbox zero on Gmail, it used to do you a nice little sunshine smile with a go enjoy your day. You have literally said that with a little thing. Doesn't have that anymore. It just sits empty and white. it does. yeah.
Donna (18:42.478)
Mm. Mm -hmm.
Donna (18:48.846)
I use Outlook and it does. It sends me a little picture of, it's got a very, the one I can remember most is it's like a little hot air balloon saying off you go, like flying off into the air. And the reason, like I thought, what I thought you were going to say is things have been a bit quiet for me the beginning of this year, just business wise. And the only downside of having a zero inbox is usually overnight it would fill up with some cool stuff. These days I come in and I go, still zero.
Rebecca (19:13.098)
Yeah.
Donna (19:16.719)
Now for some other people that might not be such a huge thing. One of the things I'll say to you straight up for anyone with your email, get rid of all your folders. You only need one called done. And that's the emails you're keeping. Whack it into done. You don't need to have a gazillion folders going or delete them altogether. And the other thing I do to get stuff out of my inbox is if it requires work or a considered response or I've got to put a proposal, I right click on it and save it as an appointment.
and then I block the time out and I do that all in the moment. I don't kind of think I'll go back and at the end of the day, I'll go back and do my email. It's all happening in real time, but it takes you a while to get there. So if you're listening now and you're thinking I could never do that, I've got 11 ,422 emails sitting in my inbox, 8 ,951 of them are unread. I'm going to say everything that's, everything, right? Just either delete it or just drag it all into a done folder right now.
Rebecca (20:07.498)
At. Delete.
Donna (20:15.214)
and then just manage the last two weeks. Now, if that makes you vomit a bit in your mouth, then go a month because anything that's more than a month old, people have already chased you up on. So.
Rebecca (20:25.514)
Yeah, that's really, that's a really good piece of advice there. Very much so because, you know, it's when you, when I see, when I see people's inboxes and they have those thousands of them, how do you have the energy to even know where to start? You know, like, how do you, do you go to the bottom every day and work from the bottom up? And that's like, no, you don't. So getting rid of it all is a, is a really good thing. I also, if I'm to open it, I have to action it.
Donna (20:52.91)
Right. In one way, you got to do something with it in that moment. Yeah. Yeah.
Rebecca (20:53.642)
So I really trained myself. Yes, yeah, so I have to action it and get it done. Yeah.
Donna (21:01.166)
Yeah, I mean, I kind of think of it like it's any kind of thing that needs decluttering, right? Clutter affects us mentally, whether you're looking at a cluttered office, whether your wardrobe's cluttered, whether your spare bedroom or garage is cluttered, wherever there's clutter, that's where overwhelm lives. And so if you think of this at every day you're opening your email, whether you're consciously aware of it or not, your brain goes,
Before you've even started it feels overwhelmed. So get it under control people, there's a tip from your Aunty Donna.
Rebecca (21:39.562)
I love that. I love we've taken away tips for inboxes, tips for time and setting ourselves up correctly, both personally and business wise. And then I'm going to go back to my favorite. I'm just making sure we're managing our time in the right way, like making things shorter. Yeah, definitely. So I know you work with individuals and organizations, and I'm going to put links to all your stuff under under the show notes. If you had to leave one thing, I know we've covered a lot, but one thing for someone to go.
Donna (21:52.118)
Yep.
Rebecca (22:08.17)
I'm going to take that as the last thing I remember from Donna. What would be your recommendation with regards to creating space?
Donna (22:14.126)
going to be the one I've already said which is do something now that your future self will thank you for.
Rebecca (22:20.01)
Nice, I love that. Donna, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been amazing and I could chat to you for hours and days, but we've done it in under 25. So high five to us. Thank you so much for coming on.
Donna (22:24.078)
Later.
Donna (22:31.95)
All right, thank you. Thanks for having me.
