Rebecca (00:00.921)
Hello and welcome back to the Champagne Lounge podcast. Today I'm joined by a very good friend and one of my first ever clients when I moved to Australia back in 2012, the fabulous Michelle Pascoe. Welcome to the show, Michelle.
Michelle Pascoe (00:15.766)
Thank you, Rebecca. I'm loving being a part of your program. So looking forward to our chat this morning.
Rebecca (00:21.205)
It's going to be great. And I can't believe that you and I now have known each other. You were literally one of my first clients when I opened the doors of my video business in 2012. And I want to start there in the conversation and then lead into what you do, because we were talking, um, before we hit the record button about how I created a business card for you in 2012. Uh, it might've been 2013, but
We were ahead of our time and people listening might be going, but you worked in video production, Rebecca, how did you make a business card? Michelle, why did you want the business card that we created for you? And what did it mean for you at the time in your industry?
Michelle Pascoe (00:58.814)
It was very much out there. I've always been one, you know, this is my 29th year in business that your business card is your calling card and being a professional speaker, I've been, I attended a conference for the association globally and I'd met this lady from Scotland who showed me her business card and she was a trainer and she talked, she showed me the card and she actually came alive and I thought, this is so cool. So when I came back to Australia,
Claire stretch who we both know was doing a lot of filming for me and I knew her through another group and this is your this connections of women and business are phenomenal. And I said I'm wanting somebody who can create this business card from the from the live video that you're doing that will make me come alive and I'll be talking to them. And she goes, I know the right person. It's Rebecca Saunders. So that's what I first met you. And we you know, we just sort of met.
Rebecca (01:50.728)
Ehehehe
Michelle Pascoe (01:54.602)
This is what I want. And I didn't even have any card to show you. I just said, I want to be talking because I love talking. If you don't realize that now you're serving will have this 25 minutes. And so you create it. And I know that it took a lot of energy on your behalf because I know you were having conversations with Google because it was augmented reality where you had to source an app, which back then they just didn't exist. And then you have to source the app. You used to have to use the camera that had to download and it was, but
not only did the front part where I came alive and talked, but at the back, my taglines always been igniting your team's potential. And you had a row of matches. And when you when you put the camera over, they all lit up. Oh, it was absolutely phenomenal. It also took them to email. It did everything. And years later, people say to me, I've still got that business coming. Yes, but the app doesn't work anymore. But we shouldn't have done that. We could have.
Rebecca (02:37.677)
Yeah.
Rebecca (02:51.357)
We should have filmed it happening and we just didn't think at the time, did we, that we'd record that and make it look the way it did. And I love that we created that for you. And I'd forgotten the matches. I'd forgotten that we'd put that into the back of them. Yeah. But so essentially for those listening, it was essentially the beginnings of a QR code. So instead of it being that speckled box, we actually had a photo of the business card that transformed into playing.
Michelle Pascoe (03:03.474)
Oh, don't just... Yeah.
Rebecca (03:18.529)
a video online and so lots of hokery pokery in the background to make that all work. But the reason I love it and wanted to start that conversation, our conversation there today Michelle is because part of that is was for me and for you and for anyone getting those cards was all about the experience. And I know the work that you do is in hospitality is experience led, I'd say like in terms of making sure you know, on the back end and the front end that everything's
Michelle Pascoe (03:35.096)
Yes.
Rebecca (03:46.701)
running as it should do and it has the wow factor. So tell us what you've been doing and what you do for the last 29 years and why you're still so passionate about it because you really are the most passionate person I know about this topic. And it's just been evolving for you over that time.
Michelle Pascoe (03:53.71)
Thanks for watching!
Michelle Pascoe (04:03.07)
It has. So creating memorable experiences with your customers, your clients. In my circumstances, I niched into the hospitality industry very, very early on when I opened up my business. So it's creating those memorable experiences for our members and guests for all the right reasons. You know, when I asked, you know, through the training or the coaching or they said, tell me about an experience that you've had. And for many people, we look at a negative experience because that's something that we remember.
We don't always remember those amazing experiences, but my gosh, when they are, it is phenomenal. And it moves it from just that service, like, you know, doing your job, making sure you deliver the meal on time, or promising them, you know, like you did that card, I'm gonna have it to you by that certain date that came in the day before. That goes from service to that experience, because it's how you make people feel. And that is what's so critical.
Even when you perhaps can't always give them what they believe they want or need, you're still creating experience by the way that you've connected with them. And you can do that, whether it's face to face, whether, you know, two people together in the same room, over Zoom, over the telephone, through your website, your contact forms, whatever it might be. It's remembering that behind every, every connection, there is a person, a person who wants to be felt.
that they belong, that you see them, that you hear them. So yes, our customers, but then also our internal customers, those who we have in our teams, whether they are directly team with us or even our virtual teams. It's how we make people feel. And that's what's, it's so beautiful.
about the experience and that customer service. And you're right, Rebecca, you know, I feel nearly, you know, three decades. And I think sometimes they, surely everyone should know about this, but they don't. And because it's evolving, it's evolving all the time because something new and different is happening about how we connect with people. And I think, you know, when we look at AI now, we can chat bots and say, now, there's a place for that. Certainly happy for that. But we don't allow that.
Michelle Pascoe (06:18.07)
to take over the connection that we have people. They're supporting, they're not that connection. We are the connection. Yeah, it's so important.
Rebecca (06:26.861)
Yeah, I'm glad you said that because AI and that technology definitely does have a place. And I love to say I've got a bit of a hospitality background from my decade of working in and out of restaurants over the years. And I know, for example, I went into a coffee shop the other day and I went to order my usual coffee. And I won't say which coffee shop I was in, but I went to order my usual black coffee. And when I worked in the particular coffee store, albeit a decade ago, that was a case of getting the cup.
turning around, putting it in the cup, putting the lid on and saying, have a great day. Like, you know, that was it done. It took four people to make this black cup of coffee, which just blew my mind. The first person took the cup in a very somber way. The next person stuck a sticker on it. Then they gave it to somebody else and they put the coffee in it. Then she gave it to someone else to put the lid on it. And I'm thinking, this has just gone mad. Like this is mental. And all along, none of them are smiling. And so,
I know I share this story because I'm not alone in feeling possibly the hardships that hospitality venues are going through in terms of finding staff, training staff and giving those experiences out there. What's been your experience on the work that you do looking at pre-COVID? We'll skip COVID during the middle bit, right? And then coming back into getting staff engaged in that way that they want to greet you with a smile and...
think outside the square a little bit and not necessarily just follow a checklist.
Michelle Pascoe (07:54.43)
Yes. And that's a process driven. And for some people, you know, when they are trained, they are told about all these steps, these processes. And if they aren't somebody who has got a natural extroverted personality or someone who is, you know, loves hospitality and talking to people, then they revert to their natural style of just having that one sided transaction instead of an interaction. Now, certainly, you know, since we have a little bit of a
black blob blimp a couple of years ago now. Now, hospitality, it's always been seen as an industry that is very transient. You know, it's the job you get while you're at uni or you're buying your first car or your first trip overseas or whatever it might be. However, for many years we've been wanting to delve into it further and show people that there are wonderful opportunities for career growth. Now we just started to get some runs
on the board and people starting to see that, you know what, this is great. You know, you can travel anywhere on the world. We've had hospitality backgrounds, you know, pour a beer or whatever it might be. And that engaging with members and guests or our customers who at times could be the most affable, lovely people. And a few hours later, they're coming at you with a, you know, the less, you know, quite aggressive and how you deal with that service recovery. However, since we've had that stop and we've come back.
Rebecca (09:04.269)
Mm.
Michelle Pascoe (09:23.414)
A, you know, we were the first to shut down in the hospitality industry and we were the last to open. So it is very hard as it is though, across a lot of industries, Rebecca, we're just not seeing those people coming through the door and we've got to start looking at, well, what are we doing and what are we saying that's not attracting them to at least, at least pick up the phone or come in for an interview. And you know, my podcast last week I was talking about, it's even changing that.
perspective where, you know, when all those had that interview for somebody new coming into the industry and go, you've got to work every weekend and every holiday. Now, that's like raving a red flag to a bull these days. Jen says, not interested. You know, what? Well, you know, holidays are for family, weekends are for family, but it's that flexibility. Of course, you know, hospitality industry, like a lot of businesses have a very much a flow of over seven days or different times of night.
Rebecca (10:03.618)
Yeah.
Michelle Pascoe (10:21.238)
You know, we're dealing with people, even if it's an online program, we're dealing with people with either side of the world now at times. So we've got to have that flexibility. So that creating that opportunity where you were going to attract people and then retain them does come into the training. It does come into the thinking about why would they want to come in here? Is my organization good? Now this could be just if you're just a one business owner.
You've got to think, what's the culture that you have? What are your values? I'm very much a values based trainer and always have been Rebecca and, you know, use disbehavioral profiling and getting into that nitty gritty. And I find even if it's just one person or one business owner and they're bringing on, even perhaps even a bookkeeper, you've got to share with them. They may not be working beside you, but you've got to share your values. You've got to share the culture and the vision that you have for your business. And that's what has been coming through.
When you talked about that comment with a coffee shop, that's probably the best example, because there's nothing worse than going to the same coffee shop every day for multiple years and they still look at you and go, what's your order? And you seriously think he's not a man. However, the opposite that I experienced a number of years ago, I was at a conference in Auckland.
Rebecca (11:29.189)
That's the worst.
Michelle Pascoe (11:38.242)
massive coffee shop. It was just down from the convention center. I'm literally queued out the door and you know, as soon as you walked in the door, there's the barista waving, hello, welcome. You know, I'm thinking, well, this is good. Literally 15 people in front of me, we're going up through the queue. Hello, how are you? What's your order? Great eye contact. Write it down. Got my name. I can assure you for the next four days, Rebecca, I would get to that door and they go, hi, Michelle, half strength latte. Come on through.
By the time I got there, it was made. Now, you could say that people in those areas where they have got high traffic flow of people that they may never see again in their entire life, when it's, you know, they're for conferences, et cetera, could be that, like what you were saying, very process driven. And instead, they knew that if they made a great connection, A, people would talk about it, because I went back and told everybody else about it.
Rebecca (12:31.813)
You're still telling us now?
Michelle Pascoe (12:34.294)
I'm still telling you now, and this is probably eight years ago, but also every day I'd go back there because they realise that just having that moment of connection, welcoming, that it's just that acknowledgement. We know you're busy, but please just acknowledge me. Let me know that you've seen me, you know, that nobody's going to push in front and that you'll get to me when times are lessens that stress off. And we've got to think about that. You know, if you're in an online business and you've got an inquiry form.
Do not think you're going to get back to them for 24 hours later because that ship has sailed. If you've got that inquiry from you, you've got to get back to them within an hour or at least a response and say, thank you very much for inquiry. I'll be back to you within two hours or three hours. But if you make it less than that, that's fine. Don't just get back to them whenever it suits you or never get back. Sometimes I find through our mystery shopping that they never get back. I think, oh, well, and you wonder why you don't have customers. But anyway.
Next question.
Rebecca (13:33.398)
Yeah, no, it's a fascinating thing. And I'm curious to know your thoughts on how you actually, how you'd actually train staff, like, or whether you're a team and you've got a retail store or you're in a restaurant or you're a cafe, or you're an online business. Actually, in my opinion, and I'm sure you'd agree with me, actually doesn't matter what business you're in, it's actually that engagement factor. And...
everyone that follows me online will know I'm a huge Camilla fan, right? That I wear their brand all the time. I love it. And I went shopping in one of my local shopping centers a few weeks ago and I walked around and it was just dire. Like nobody said hello to me. There was nothing in any store. No one had a smile. There was just nothing. And I didn't buy much because anything in most of the stores, because I didn't, I didn't get the engagement. I thought, actually, I'm not going to give you my hard earned money.
Michelle Pascoe (14:24.206)
Mm.
Rebecca (14:24.329)
if you haven't given me the engagement, because I don't want to play into bad customer service. I'm one of those sticklers for it. So I felt so deflated at the end of it that I went, you know what, I'm not supposed to be going into Camilla today, but I'm going to because I walked in and I was like, guys, can you just make me feel a million dollars? Like, have you got any champagne or whatever it was? And I came out of there within 20 minutes feeling fantastic. And I didn't even have to buy anything. It was just the atmosphere of the store. And that's their brand culture. But
How do you train somebody in being that slightly extroverted style of training? I would probably call it that forward thinking in terms of what the customer might need or putting yourself in the customer's shoes. How do you get a team to follow along with that and have that intuition, I guess, when they don't have it innately?
Michelle Pascoe (15:14.238)
and that initiative. Now I could be in there, I think, if I could get that magic bullet. Look, you know, I've always said it is, and we've heard it a thousand times, it's recruiting on that attitude. You know, what's the personality when they come to see you? You know, sometimes, you know, people can be a little bit nervous in that interview. So it's asking them just general questions, you know, not closed, you know, not closed answered questions. It's learning a little bit more about them. And then,
ensuring that what you promise in that interview, you deliver on that first day, not the second or the third, but that first day. Even if you are a CEO of a corporation that's got a lot of people, if you can make it to that front door and welcome them or pop in and see them to where they are on that desk, that's important. But it's because it's that first moment, because you've promised them a lot. Now are you going to actually uphold those promises?
Are you going to make them feel that they're part of the team? Because they're not going to give you three months, three years anymore. They're wanting to feel that they're welcomed and that they belong straight off. So when we have that feeling, then it's a lot easier to train them because we've shared the vision, we've given them the values. We just don't assume, Rebecca, that they know customer service like we do. And that's probably the biggest assumption. Hey, this is the way I do it. Doesn't everybody? And no, they don't.
You know, I know it's hard to believe, but they don't. And so you do have to go through a process, but it's not just saying, you ask the phone by going blah, blah. And you go, we answered the phone here because what we want to do is share this message or whatever it might be. So you're giving them that true why, that understanding of why we do it, and then how we do it, whose responsibility is it and when. So all those little points and what we have to do is key.
The more that we can give them that information at the start, the more that we can actually say, you know, all they say to people when you first come into the organization, how do you learn best? Ask them, how do they, do they like to take notes? Do they like to just watch? Do they, do they like to try it and, you know, may mark it up a couple of times and do it again? That's where it comes through with that customer service because how you're dealing with them is that you're showing them that.
Michelle Pascoe (17:33.09)
this experience that you sprout all over your website, that you're welcoming, that you're caring, that you have this great experience, that you're actually giving it to them. And my goodness, they will then just replicate that because they can see that from you. They can see it from others in the organization. Sure, you may have somebody that may turn up to the interview, may have all those great things, and then they get into the organization and you go, oh, you know what, they're not just the right fit.
Sometimes that just happens. And so, you know, it's being responsible and saying, look, this is not the right fit. You've given them all the chances. You've given them all the training, but they're still not right. Then it is time to move people on because too often we destroy all the good work we've done. And everybody else in that organization, when it comes down to that critical customer experience, because we, we just don't want to have that conversation with someone or we'll just, we're going to
tolerate them. Well, we don't tolerate bad customers. So why should we tolerate poor performance in the workplace? Because they're going to impact on you. They are your eyes, your ears, your hands in the business, they're dealing with your customers. So you're right when you go into a shop, and you just get people doing like they're not making connection, you go, why aren't you? Why aren't you?
Rebecca (18:35.141)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Pascoe (18:51.058)
actually welcoming people. It doesn't mean you have to be right up against them going, oh, can I help you? Do you want this one? There's nothing worse than a heart cell. You don't want that. But it's just that welcome. Hello, glad that you've come in to talk outside, isn't it? Come on in, enjoy the air conditioning. Let me know if you need anything. But that doesn't mean you just go off to the back room and never to be seen again either. It means you come out and then we're so off. Oh, I've got that dress or I've seen somebody. Oh, that's a really pretty.
Rebecca (19:01.485)
Yeah.
Michelle Pascoe (19:20.234)
Now have a conversation, let them know that you're there. But that's that experience you're creating. You know, it's, do they come into your store and they've got a pram? Do you watch them from their counter with your arms, crosses the battle in the door with one arm, trying to put a pusher in? Or do you go up and open it? Do you allow that there's enough space in there? There was a shop once that was a baby store, but they made the aisles so hard, you couldn't push a pram up there. And I'm thinking,
Who is your target market? A mother and probably her mother wanting to buy clothes for this brand new baby. And you've made it totally impossible for an experience. People just go, this is just too hard. We're looking at, I know you've got a beautiful Collie dog there up where you are. And as I know with my little puppy, places will have the water bowls out the front or coming into summer. Think about that a customer experience. What about some nice cold water inside for people? They don't have to buy anything.
and you're not tricking them to go through to the back. But what about that for some people? You know, what are some of those experiences that you create? Like they did at Camilla there, they weren't expecting you to buy something, but they made it a really nice time, didn't they?
Rebecca (20:32.617)
Yeah, yeah. And you've almost led it. It's like you're reading my mind in terms of what I was going to ask you next to feed on from it. It's that wow factor piece of once you've got past the process piece and you're having those conversations, what are the best wow factor things that you've seen put in place by organizations? So, you know, the glass of champagne's a nice touch, the cold water's a nice touch, the dog bowl's great. What are the things that you're seeing now have really just caught your eye and gone, oh, I love that? Or what are the...
What are people doing well right now?
Michelle Pascoe (21:04.214)
Hmm. No, I think the most important thing is that they're remembering your name. Oh, you know, I know it's something simple, but you know, like is all your order. They know what that order is. They're welcoming you. They're using your name. It's not, it's not icky. It's important when you hear your name, you know that there is a connection there. You know, that it's something really simple. Smiling doesn't cost you anything. But these are, these are can simply wow factors because we're not getting it anywhere else.
But you know, there's some fun things if you're a coffee shop and perhaps you've got a member's card and you've seen, you know, that, you know, it's their birthday or, you know, they may be on your database. Do you put something a little extra? Do you do you have a little biscuit on the side? But don't make it just a biscuit. Make it a freckle. Everybody loves a freckle. Because what does a freckle do? But freckle, but you bite their heads off and sometimes you get the cranky.
Rebecca (21:53.793)
Tiny Teddy. I love my Tiny Teddy's on one of the copies I get here.
Michelle Pascoe (22:01.902)
tiny teddy, you think, oh, I hope they don't think I'm a cranky tiny teddy. So a freckles would be cause it takes us back to our childhood, it takes us back to a little bit of fun. You know, if I know with some of my clients, they may have an alfresco area and you know, it's really, really hot. So I say to them, go out the back, get the super duper's, they cost you two cents each, not even that, cut them in half, wrap around a nice bit of a hand towel and take them out. I can assure it doesn't matter whether the customer is 95.
or 15 or in between, they will love that super duper. What's it cost you? A couple of dollars. It's absolutely nothing. It's something, you know, it's that wow factor. Or, you know, you could be a shop where, you know, it's retail and you know, it's like, and it's not going, oh, I'm giving you this for free. No, you want something that when they get home, they'll open it up and there may be a little, you know, you may be glasses and it could be a little,
you know, a glass cleaner or it could be, you know, a cookie with thank you. You made my day by shopping in my shop. You know, those are that they'll find in the bag when they get home. Wow. What an experience that is because you haven't made a big oh, I'm giving this to you. Doesn't that make you feel good? I think the perfect example of that is the beautiful owner of Bird's Nest down in Cooma.
Jane, you know, I saw her a number of years ago, not long after she purchased the store, not far from here, here in the southern highlands, but I buy a lot of my clothes through Burst Nest. And I can assure you every time you get your order, doesn't matter whether you've spent a little or a lot of money, you get it beautifully wrapped, but there's always a handwritten note from somebody who has done that. And sometimes there may be an extra surprise. It could be a big freckle, or it could be a wash bag.
Or it could be a cookbook or a memo book, but it's not every time. And that's when we're going to think about creating those experiences. It doesn't become mundane and expectation of your customers. Instead, what it is, it's that wow moment of, oh, that's exciting. Haven't thought about that. So there's little things that we can we can do that just makes that moment where people go, wow, it could even be, you know, if they've come in to your store and they'll say,
Rebecca (23:57.123)
Yeah.
Michelle Pascoe (24:22.078)
will come back on Friday or they're going to bring this. And so when they come in, it's remembering them. Oh, you're back. Yes. Oh, you brought your, you know, your friend, your mother, whatever it might be. You know, it's all those little things that we can remember details. And I know in my world with hospitality, there are some phenomenal concierges that would honestly would member people's names for 20 plus years. But the connection that they make and even if they didn't know your name.
Rebecca (24:46.103)
Thank you.
Michelle Pascoe (24:50.838)
They'd talk to you as though they'd known you for all of their lives. And people would just flock there. Not, well the venue was good, but it was that concierge constantly. So you know, what are those little experiences that we can create that has that wow factor that doesn't have to cost you money?
Rebecca (25:07.921)
I love that. And I love that you've just made those so tangible. Like it doesn't and actually raise the awareness that most people aren't doing even the basics of smiling and saying hello. So like that is completely free to do and be a part of, let alone the little handwritten notes. You're actually the second person that's mentioned Bird's Nest to me today. So I'm going to have to go check out this wonderful store because they do make a difference. And you're right, not all the time, but just the odd little bits of things that make people go, Oh,
I feel a little bit of extra love today. There's a little bit of extra sparkle in my day, which I absolutely adore. So thank you for giving the tangible tips as well, because I think that's really important for people to know that it doesn't need to cost a lot of money and eat into profits in such a monstrous way. It can be free and can be little and it can still have such an impact. Talking of having an impact and sparkles and all things fun, the last question I love to ask everyone on the podcast is how they celebrate.
successes in their business. Now, I know as business owners, we tend to just jump into the next and the next and the next, and we kind of forget to acknowledge what we've done and how well we've done things. So Michelle, you've been in business 29 years. How do you celebrate and mark milestones in your business?
Michelle Pascoe (26:24.874)
it's a wonderful question and one that we need to do. But I will honestly admit, particularly in the early years and not even the early years, probably even right up until we've had that break with COVID, I was just the doer. It was constantly. And I had a large team of 70 employees. It was just go, go all the time. And therefore it was just jumping from the one thing to the next thing. However, I have really taken that moment to step back and go, I need to announce.
It's great for me to tell everybody to do that when you're coaching them, but you've actually got to live that, Michelle. You can't just do it. You know, you can't just say you've actually got to do it yourself. So unlike you, I don't toast it with all those bottles of Verve, which I really, I've shared that idea. I've said, Oh, I've got this wonderful friend, Rebecca. They all go, that's phenomenal. I'm going to, you know, it keeps your ties to them. I like to write it down. I like to tick it off. I have a beautiful EA Sarah who's been with me for many years and then had a break.
Rebecca (27:04.677)
I'm gonna go get some water.
Michelle Pascoe (27:21.506)
with children exception and came back last year. So we celebrate together. And last week it was really funny because she lives up on the central coast, I'm in the highlands and we got a new client. And so I rang her up and said, oh, so and so, you know, cause our clients take a while. It's a bit of a journey. And she goes, hold on, and next thing she's ringing the bell. Ha ha.
Michelle Pascoe (27:46.538)
you know, both Rebecca and I are in her empire building Tita Tower. So, that ringing the bell is so important and it's something I've never done before but it got her really excited. I mean, you know, her little girl was ringing the bell and I thought, you know, it is stopping. It is starting to having an acknowledgement and then of course, when we're out, we celebrate, you know, we'll go out for a nice meal or you know, I'll go out and tell my family, you know, eating is really important to me so I'll celebrate it that way but
Just for that moment of ringing that bell, I thought, yeah, it was that, you've worked hard, so acknowledge that. Just actually stop and acknowledge it. Don't just keep going. So now that I've got her, we acknowledge it together, which is important.
Rebecca (28:30.917)
I think that's fantastic. I love that. I love that so much. Michelle, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I know our listeners will take away so many golden nuggets for this. And I know you offer a lot of beautiful services in this space. So I'm gonna link all of your details in the show notes at the bottom of this episode on whatever platform you're listening on. It's been an absolute blast. We could chat about this forever, but I'm conscious. I limit it to 30 minutes an episode. So Michelle, thank you for coming on the show.
Michelle Pascoe (29:00.142)
Thank you, Rebecca, for the opportunity, and I wish everybody a wonderful, safe remainder of this year and a fantastic 2024.
Rebecca (29:07.589)
Thanks, guys.
Michelle Pascoe (29:08.878)
Bye.
