Rebecca (00:00.81)
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Champagne Lounge Podcast. If you're new to the show, this podcast is where I invite the members of the Champagne Lounge to talk about who they are, what they do and why they do it. And today I'm joined on the show by the fantastic Nikki Miklosch Woodley. Welcome to the show, Nikki.
Nicky (00:20.342)
Hello, Bec, it's so wonderful to be here.
Rebecca (00:24.978)
I'm so excited to have you on the show. You and I have become good friends only in the last couple of months through varying different communities. And I'm excited to have you on the show because the topic of work that you do is really close to home for me. Breaking hustle culture and thriving without burnout. Now as someone that has been through burnout, I know how to get down to it as far as I can go and how hard it is to get out of that. So.
What got you into that space and give us a bit of a career background before we dive into what you're doing now.
Nicky (00:57.222)
Yeah, I love that. And what you said there is so true. I'm sure a lot of listeners can resonate with this topic is close to our hearts. It's close to so many people's hearts. It's really relatable. Because a lot of people, particularly women in business, particularly business owners, entrepreneurs, or successful corporate leaders, you know, successful people have experienced a version of burnout. And for me personally, I my career has really mainly been in sales,
you know, on the ground sales roles, and then stepping into leadership roles, sales director roles, etc, in corporate. And I had my own experience of burnout in 2012. And that really shook me, as again, I'm sure so many people can relate and I wasn't able to work for a couple of months. And that's probably really where this journey started for me to look at, hang on a second, there has to be a better way there has to be a better way to live really. And that's
that's really progressed into not just how to live, but how to do business. Because the really interesting thing is that even though I experienced that, I still found myself over the last 11 years or so, almost falling back or, you know, I remember the time that I had, I was taken to emergency by my wife, Jules. And like, what's wrong? It was a panic attack, you know, which was stress related and other examples after I'd experienced burnout. So I was like, what the hell's going on here?
Rebecca (02:09.482)
are easily done.
Rebecca (02:23.518)
Yeah.
Nicky (02:23.71)
there's got to be a different, better way. So yeah, I think it's really relatable and I think it's time for us to break this hustle culture, whether it's in corporate leadership, business, and really start prioritizing life as equally, as much as we prioritize business.
Rebecca (02:39.742)
Oh, so much so. And you said two things there, like one where like even when you've been down the root of burnout and burnout, I'm just gonna flag it shouldn't be a burn like a badge of honor, like it's not a badge of honor. Like, it is serious. There was a point for me last year, well, I could only sit in front of a computer for like an hour. That was my that was my limit. And if you get to that point, that is not okay. Like, definitely not okay. So for most of our listeners, our listeners and our members are all
Nicky (03:02.541)
Yeah.
Rebecca (03:08.65)
predominantly business owners. So if we focus on sort of the business owner, female business owner perspective, what are some of the things that people should be looking out for in themselves, but also in their friends and other business owner colleagues, who may be thinking, oh, I'm on the edge of burnout, but really what does burnout look like? Like what does it look like for people?
Nicky (03:28.338)
Yeah, it's that's such a great question. And the thing is that there's different types of burnout as well. So you might have physical burnout, you know, for me, it was like, I call it the burnout wall where I just visit well, actually, in my, in my office, I worked in a contact center and in front of everybody, I may have had a little meltdown crawled into my into my boss's office and just physically couldn't function anymore. So it's a physical stop. Now this is where we don't want to get to. So
and I'll talk about some of the signs, but that's one type, but it could be emotional burnout. It might be physically you're still feeling okay, but mentally you're exhausted. It could be that there's spiritual burnout. Like there's different ways that we burn out. And it is important that we start to look at what could be the signs or the tells. And the biggest tip I would say around that is it's not natural to feel exhausted all the time.
It's not, we're not meant to feel that way. You know, if you can create the space in your life to get to know your body, to get to know your thought process, you'll know if something's not quite right. And if you can't even find the space to start checking in with yourself emotionally, mentally, physically, then that is not, you know, that needs to change immediately. And by space, it doesn't have to be huge. It's little micro moments. We talk a lot about
Rebecca (04:46.186)
Mm.
Nicky (04:51.446)
you know, micro moments could be 60 seconds, stop for 60 seconds and do some square breathing or box breathing, or go outside if you live in Queensland like I do and it's not freezing down in Melbourne or Sydney, where the weather's warm, go outside and put your bare feet on the grass, okay? Like it's these little moments that don't have to take a long time where we start to check in with how am I feeling right now? Because when you do that, you start to be able to tell, this isn't Nikki, or this isn't me.
Rebecca (05:02.742)
Ha ha ha!
Nicky (05:20.722)
something's not quite right here. And if you can't find 60 seconds, well you can, but if you think you can't, then already that could be an indicator that, we call it the busy trap. When you're stuck in the busy trap, it feels impossible to get out. So if you feel like you're stuck in the busy trap, it's impossible to get out, that's a warning sign. If you feel like you can't take 60 seconds for yourself, that's a warning sign. If you're feeling constantly exhausted or it's that feeling of I just can't keep going or,
I'm starting to feel resentment for what I'm doing, or I'm not enjoying what I'm doing, I still love what I'm doing, and I'm not enjoying it. Maybe you don't want to hang out with people, you don't want to socialize. And typically, you're a social person. So know who you or what your behaviors are naturally, and then compare it to that. Because it's for you, it's different to me, you know, how that plays out is going to be different to all of us. So we have to have a baseline with ourselves.
Rebecca (06:14.81)
massively and I like that you brought up micro moments because I definitely feel when people talk about oh yeah that's great with space or self-care or checking in it's like it doesn't need to be hours days a weekend away anything like that it can just be a few minutes um I've got a chair that I've put out under the tree in our garden outside and um eventually that will turn into a beautiful daybed with cushions because I've got a vision of it but you know right now it's just the tree
Nicky (06:38.826)
Yes.
Rebecca (06:42.098)
And I'm like, you know what, this is really nice just as we sat in the garden away from tech, away from things, just for five minutes between meetings makes all the difference. Very, very much so. So they're the things that we can do though, Nikki, like in terms of just the micro moments, those little things, and I know you've got a heap of resources that we'll be able to link to in the show notes that are like helpful tips at the end of that. But what are the signs we should be watching for? Because I know you very easily can ignore them.
Nicky (06:49.73)
Yes, yes. Yeah, it really does.
Rebecca (07:11.534)
Equally, once you've been through burnout, it's very easily to slide back into them if you don't really check on it.
Nicky (07:15.742)
Yeah, yeah. And also there's a fear, I don't know about you, but I find that once we've experienced it, there's almost this fear of there is a fear of not wanting to go back and yet so hard to change our behavior. So signs are simple things like are you more irritable than usual? Are you again, not finding joy in the things that you used to find joy in? Is it feeling like hard work? Now, sometimes business is hard work, you know, we do work hard.
Rebecca (07:26.132)
Oh yeah.
Nicky (07:43.586)
But I'm talking an extra, like it's that sluggishness. It's that not feeling motivated. I don't like the word motivated because sometimes motivation is so fickle. But again, it's the intuition. You know if something's not right. So the exhaustion feeling, the feeling constantly rushed. Like if you feel that you are constantly rushed, if you feel like there are so many people wanting a piece of you. Again, we call this juggle straight. You're juggling all the balls.
Rebecca (08:03.615)
Oh that feeling.
Nicky (08:13.154)
for everybody else and not for self. Like they're the signs. And again, I think it's an intuitive thing. And I think the biggest sign is if you don't have time to think about this and check in with yourself, you could be heading to burnout war. Whatever that looks like for you. You know, again, my wife had a really bad experience with burnout and hasn't been able to work for years, you know? So that's where we don't want to get to. For some people it might be a week, but the signs are.
Rebecca (08:28.175)
Yeah.
Nicky (08:39.602)
exhausted, not feeling yourself irritated more than usual, we all get irritated, not finding the joy, it's going to be unique for everybody. So it's really about checking in with you.
Rebecca (08:50.378)
checking in also just watching out for those things amongst friends as well I think is really important as well because you'll know them and you'll be able to check in and go that's not a normal response or actually yeah.
Nicky (08:58.242)
Yes, yes, 100%. Because the thing is that it's hard to ask for help. And again, as women, we need to be able to ask for help. But there's this whole stoic, we can do it, we can push through, this is getting, you know, we need to A, be able to ask for help. But if that's too much, just share how you're feeling. Share how you're feeling with a biz bestie or a bestie to say, hey, things feel a bit out of control now. So you don't have to ask for help, just share.
Rebecca (09:17.786)
Mm-hmm.
Nicky (09:26.594)
how you're feeling and conversely, if you're noticing one of your friends or biz besties and they're not themselves, like this is the, I think that's the most important thing. Even when you're coaching your team, when you know as business owners, we might have team or people around us. And when we observe a certain behavior, the telltale signs is, is that behavior different to how they usually are? Because when there's a change in behavior, something's going on and-
That might be then an opportunity for you to just reach out and maybe you don't have to tell them that their behavior's changed, but check in. How are you doing? Can I do anything to support and help you? Let's talk about this. We have to talk about this.
Rebecca (10:07.838)
So it's so important to and in saying that, you know, having those conversations, you and I have both been in conversations within the Champagne Land or someone's just come in and gone, blah, this is where I'm at. And other people go, Oh, my God, me too. Like, oh, I'm not alone. And, and so it's one of those things that, you know, all these minor, minor things that just start to stack up are happening to a lot of people. And there are definitely problem shared is a problem halved, right? Like that's
Nicky (10:20.859)
Yes. Yes!
Nicky (10:36.546)
Yes.
Rebecca (10:36.874)
That's it. And just verbalizing it can almost help solve a lot of the stress around a lot of situations.
Nicky (10:43.954)
Agree. And I feel like that two things that we often say to ourselves, what's wrong with me, and the feeling of I'm in this alone. And as soon as the amount of times again in the champagne lounge and in the communities, you know, that we're a part of, it's incredible when somebody is vulnerable and has the courage to share really where they're at instead of this false positive, you know, I can't stand that false positivity. And I'm naturally quite an optimistic person. But we're all human and we all have to be
Rebecca (11:10.706)
Yeah, we can't be on and positive the whole time. We just can't.
Nicky (11:13.496)
Thanks.
Nicky (11:17.23)
And in fact, like I found at one point years ago, people expected it of me because I'm naturally quite bubbly and optimistic. And I'm like, oh, give me a break. I'm allowed to have crack days as well, you know? But again, the vulnerability of saying, I'm struggling, I'm not having a great day or this is what's going on for me. Every single time there is someone else in that room or in that conversation that can relate to what you're saying. So that's a huge message, isn't it? No.
Rebecca (11:28.187)
Right.
Rebecca (11:43.738)
every time and that's not an exaggeration that is like every time there is someone going to be feeling it very similar or have had a similar situation in the past that can be like oh this is what I did you know oh okay yeah like it's it makes a huge difference to be able to talk that through and share that now um what are some of the things that once that you've personally you know put in place to navigate um keeping your boundaries in place so you don't go down that burnout
Nicky (11:55.402)
Yeah.
Rebecca (12:13.674)
phase. I mean, I could talk for hours and hours about systems and processes and all the quirky little things that I put in place. But one of the things that you've got in place to ensure that you don't, you know, sit in front of your computer from eight in the morning till eight at night, because that's really easy to do when you love your business and you love what you do.
Nicky (12:14.391)
Yeah.
Nicky (12:18.398)
Yes.
Nicky (12:30.682)
Yeah. And I think that's such an important point because, you know, when we talk about breaking the hustle culture, when we, you know, I like to talk about healthy hustle and my journey with hustle has been quite deep over the last nine years of business. But we are driven women. We want to succeed. We do want to get up and do the work and we love it. So actually having boundaries in place can be really hard when we love what we do. And so I think the first thing just to remind people is
It's not a one size fits all. What works for me could work for Beth, could work for you. Try it and if it doesn't work, like really give it a go, but then you can change it. And a great example is even my business partner, Ness and I, we work quite differently. So what works for me is different for her. So things that I do, for example, I have a 10 a.m. start. So I don't work until, yes! How good is that? Wow! Oh my gosh, I can't live without it now. You know?
Rebecca (13:20.766)
Me too! High five to that! Yes!
Rebecca (13:28.004)
Um.
Nicky (13:28.834)
So what I do before then is I have what I call sacred mornings. And so I do have some rituals in there like journaling and meditating, but there's also a flow. If it's overly structured for me, it doesn't work. But if there's no structure, that also doesn't work. So there has to be that feminine energy. If we think about embracing the feminine and the masculine energy. I also have no-go zones. So I have, and I'm reminding myself. So on the wall here, I've got
a list of my intolerables, boundaries and thriving. And I remind.
Rebecca (14:00.846)
I love that I turn to look at my wall at that point. I'm like, my list is not there. Ha ha ha.
Nicky (14:03.206)
Yeah, come on the journey with me. So you know, like I've got an ear no-go zone 630 to 830. And I'm like, Oh, actually, I haven't been doing that lately. So I've got to check in with what are the things so first tip I would say is write down what are your non negotiables or your no-go zones or the things that are important. So 10am starts.
No work after between 630 and 830, whatever that version is for you. I have soulful Sundays. So my Sunday where I can, it happens two to three times a month. Sometimes I can't avoid plans coming in. No plans. So I have the flexibility and the freedom. Checking in. So conversations, the community, back the champagne lounge, you know, other communities. I mean, the big best is having real conversations about what's going on.
And that was really hard for me, because I was very good at being the good girl, perfect, smiley, happy. That's what people expected of me. That's what I want, people pleasing. So it is hard to say, actually, I'm not feeling great today. But again, every time I've done that, there have been people that have been able to support me and I've been able to help them feel okay about what they're feeling. So a couple of practical things, micro moments. Absolutely. If you've got dogs and, Bekah, I know you've got a gorgeous puppy.
Rebecca (15:19.422)
Yeah.
Nicky (15:25.61)
Like one of my favorite things is getting on the floor and just lying on the floor of his floor in the middle of the day and I'm like, Oh, sure. I'm getting dog hair all over me, but whatever it's worth it. You can just cuddling the puppies, you know. It is. Yes. Exactly. When I get down, I'm like, this was worth it. I'm getting older. It's harder to bend down, but it's still worth it.
Rebecca (15:25.702)
Oh, I do.
Rebecca (15:35.962)
It is worth it. Every moment I die is worth it.
Rebecca (15:45.686)
Still worth it. Yeah, the little faces too. Like I find when you were listing off your non-negotiables there, it's like, am I talking to myself in the mirror? Because I also have the Sunday thing and I make mine a tech-free Sunday and plan-free Sunday and I have the 10 a.m. sacred mornings and all the things. But yeah, what I find that when I don't have the dog or when I'm away for work, my morning routine kind of slips a bit because I actually really enjoy walking the dog.
Nicky (15:53.258)
Yes!
Rebecca (16:13.574)
Not walking just by myself, like walking the dog. Yeah, it's interesting.
Nicky (16:17.502)
Yeah, yeah it is. And that for sure, then that, I feel like with these things, it's taken a few years for me to get these structures in place. And I love that we're so similar in what we do. And so then there's the next evolution of that. Absolutely. When I'm away from home, what does that look like? I think the other thing is moments of joy. We have to find moments of joy. So we gave an example with cuddling the dogs, getting down on the floor with them.
Um, you know, what are the things that bring you joy and how can you introduce that into your day? Just little moments of that. Uh, and another great example, you know, focus on the basics sleep. Make sure you prioritize going to bed at the time that will give you a good sleep. Think about what you're doing before you go to bed screen time. You know, don't watch what's that show. SPU or NCIS not good for your brain before you have to sleep. Yes. Like.
Rebecca (17:08.338)
know that really spirals you out yeah I found myself looking behind the door the other day when I was home alone just being like well there be someone here I hope not
Nicky (17:14.038)
Yeah.
Nicky (17:18.294)
No, my gosh, I know I get in my head so much. So think about how you're setting yourself up today. We've actually set ourselves up for success today, yesterday, sleep, water, movement, find exercise that's fun. You know, I do dance classes now and I've never loved exercise. Actually, I'm heading off to dance straight after we've recorded this podcast. So it's that flexibility and then it helps show up. Yeah.
Rebecca (17:39.454)
Amazing. Oh, I love that. I love that for you. And you know what, when you talked about those moments of joy, um, I tend to refer to them as the VIP moments. Like what are the things that are making you feel really special in the day, in the moment, so it could be like lighting that candle, you know, that one he got given that you're like, I won't like that. I'll keep it for a special occasion. Yeah, that one, the champagne candle, um, you know, light it, enjoy it, you know.
Nicky (17:56.266)
Yes.
Nicky (18:02.122)
It's not working.
Rebecca (18:06.558)
Use that bubble bath, put on that makeup, you know, wear whatever underwear under your boring outfit, like just have fun, you know, and the things that bring you smiles, it can just be for you, like even using your favorite coffee mug. I love doing. Yeah.
Nicky (18:11.006)
and I was.
Nicky (18:21.135)
Yes, yes, the nice wine glass, you know, the don't save the crystal for guests. You enjoy it for you. Yeah, I agree. Yep.
Rebecca (18:28.542)
Use it. Yeah. Oh, Nikki, we have covered so much ground in today's conversation. Like I feel that we've given people the option to sort of just see and the tools to see and see and understand and recognize red flags or moments, but also the tools to help them navigate that. So I think there's a lot of key moments there to take away. Now, one of the questions I always ask people at the end of the show.
is what was the last thing you celebrated in your business and how did you celebrate it? And the reason I asked the question is because as female business owners, we forget how much we achieve and we forget to acknowledge and celebrate along the way because we're always chasing the next thing. Now being in the champagne lounge, you should have a good answer for this now.
Nicky (18:59.445)
Oh!
Nicky (19:15.582)
Yes, I do. Oh my gosh, I do. I absolutely do. So first of all, I loved opening my bottle of Verve at the end of last financial year, which was wonderful. And you shared your strategy around the poster notes. So that's definitely something that we have in the business now. And look, I think in the moment celebrations, we do quite a lot. We had some really good wins and successes in the quarter in terms of not just revenue targets, but commitments that we set around systems and processes, which you'll love hearing.
Rebecca (19:44.818)
Yes.
Nicky (19:45.246)
So what we did to celebrate is we booked really good, like lovely accommodation. We're heading to Sydney in December. So the splurge for us was actually staying in a really nice hotel. So it's a forward celebration, but something we'll be able to, just booking it was really great. So yeah, I'm the champion. I'm the champion.
Rebecca (20:01.234)
Yes, yes, I love that. I love that when I start booking hotel rooms now, I'm like, you know what? I want it to be an experience. Like if I'm going to stay somewhere, I want to, I want the bubble bath with a view. If they offer that at the hotel or I want the room with the balcony with the view, not just the box room that makes me feel like what was the point? Yeah.
Nicky (20:08.842)
Yes!
Nicky (20:15.19)
Yeah.
Nicky (20:21.554)
Yeah, absolutely. Yes. I mean, it's all the experience. And again, this comes back to what we talked about with the moments of joy. And all of this helps you thrive without that burnout. And it helps us break hustle culture, because there's a different way of doing things. Can I just add one more tip that I think is really important? I'm aware of time. But the other thing I would say to all the business owners listening is when you do your business strategy and your business planning, and I'm sure that you do at least 90 day strategies, if not 12 month, you know, business goals.
Rebecca (20:37.216)
Yes.
Nicky (20:51.706)
Make sure just like you might have your business growth goals, you might have your money or wealth creation goals, including their we call it prioritized life, but you can call it something else. So you actually are setting yourself goals every 90 days for prioritized life. It's kind of like having KPIs for your personal life, which is where this started for me. It's like, okay, my KPIs for personal life might be it could be a date night, it could be a walk on your own, it could be a solo retreat, micro moments like
included in your strategy for each quarter. That's important.
Rebecca (21:24.27)
Oh, that is genius. That's genius to share that at the end of that. I think that wraps it up well because listening to this episode for members and listeners in will drop it in early 2024. But at the end of each year, I spend time and I've shared it with the community. At the end of 2023 was around come vision board with me and see me do just that. Like put the holidays in first, put those elements in about going for the girls weekend or popping in a spa day once a quarter or those things that go.
actually I need that balance for me in order for me to grow the business. And for you to wrap that up, I think is so, so good because it is about that balance. Like we don't work for ourselves just to keep working to the bone, right? We just don't, it's not right, yeah.
Nicky (21:58.616)
Yes.
Nicky (22:09.156)
Yeah, and we don't want to, we don't want to create a day job. But that's also not why we went into business, to create a day job. That's going to just suck the life out of us. Why don't I, that's what I don't want anyway. That's, you know, that's what I left day jobs.
Rebecca (22:19.314)
Yeah, we don't want to get, we want thriving businesses without the burnout and lots of fun conversations with people that get it along the way. Yes. Nikki, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It's been an awesome chat. Um, all the links and resources will be in the show notes. I've really appreciated your time this morning.
Nicky (22:25.103)
Exactly. Spot on.
Nicky (22:37.378)
I so appreciate you back and everything that you're creating and particularly the Champagne Lounge. So it's amazing to be a member of and thank you for creating this space to have these conversations.
Rebecca (22:49.066)
Thank you, my love, appreciate it.
Ta-da! That was epic.
