Rebecca (00:00.674)
Hello and welcome back to the Champagne Lounge podcast. If you're new to the show, I jump on each one every week and interview one of our fabulous members about who they are, what they do, and most importantly, why they do it. So today I'm happy to introduce the wonderful Michelle. Welcome to the show, Michelle.
michelle kvello (00:21.46)
Hello, how are you doing? Thanks for having me.
Rebecca (00:24.814)
I am very excited to jump into this one because I do love a chat about finance. So you are a CFO and business advisor slash coach in the startup and scale up space. How did you get into that world? Give us a little bit of a background of Michelle and what brought you to today.
michelle kvello (00:45.676)
Sure. So I guess training wise, I'm a chartered accountant. So I trained with PwC back in London many, many moons ago. But I worked within what they call commercial finance within big marketing and media technology organizations for about the next sort of decade and a half after that. But I'd always wanted to run my own business. Both my parents were self-employed. So I kind of didn't have that model of you have to work for
30 years, nine to five, wearing the gray suits, all of that kind of thing, which is a huge blessing. And it took me a while to figure out what I could do and how I could do it and all of that kind of thing. I love working with founders. I love the startup and scale up community. And so that's where I found my happy place in terms of the business. So yeah, launched Lanturn Partners 12 years ago now, which seems insane every time I say it. I can't believe it's been that long.
Rebecca (01:46.222)
Amazing. I think I was saying I was going in business for a decade, for about three years before I could remember how many years I'd been in it. So 12 years is no mean feat. So in terms of that startup and scale up space, I mean, I can't be the only one listening to that going, oh, that's the area of business that I would probably shy away from. Like, that's the scariest bit, the ones without the cash. Why is that sector such of interest to you?
michelle kvello (02:15.344)
Okay, so for me, it's about supporting the founders through that founder journey, because yes, it can be a bit scary, but it's also a really, really exciting time of business for a founder. What we do a lot of is helping businesses prepare for sale. And for a lot of the founders we work with, this is the first business that they've ever run. This is the first business they have thought about selling. And they're frankly achieving life changing.
outcomes from that. And that's just gorgeous to be a part of. And, you know, I'm a founder myself, I understand the adrenaline, but I also really understand that kind of what we call the awkward adolescence of business. When you need to get from that kind of cute little baby business to the big grown up business making big grown up decisions, you kind of got to scale through this awkward adolescence. And that's where we play.
We do more scale up than start up. We tend to only work with, you know, pretty well funded startups for exactly the reason that you were talking about. But yeah, we quite like playing in that messy middle.
Rebecca (03:27.062)
I love that, I love that. And so for founders or business owners listening, and they're not in the scale up or startup space, because I think it's very, well, in my opinion, my understanding of scale up and startup spaces has come from a tech background, right? Working and playing in the tech space where I've had a lot of tech founders as friends. Anyone that doesn't really understand that terminology, can you give us a little bit of a quick one-liner about what those terms actually mean in terms of the size of the business, the type of the business?
michelle kvello (03:57.064)
Yeah. Okay. So the stage startups are generally, I guess that's easier to explain, right? They're really at the start of the business journey. They're figuring out their product fit, the market fit. They're figuring out how does their business model work? How do they make money? How do they make money profitably? How do they profitably run their business? So that's really the startup stage. The scale up stage is the tricky bit of business.
And that's where a lot of businesses stumble. The businesses that we're working with are typically founder run businesses. And businesses in that startup stage have done really well because the founder has been involved in every single part of the business. Like a lot of the people listening to this today, I imagine that you are the founders of your business and you touch and feel every single part of the decision-making within the business that you run.
it gets to a certain stage of business. And we'll talk about revenues and employees in a second, but really it is when the business is getting busy enough that it is no longer efficient for you as a founder to be involved in every single decision within the business. And you're actually starting to hold the business back from growth by insisting on kind of staying in that space. So we kind of help founders and help the businesses they run scale past that.
Rebecca (05:24.238)
And that's quite a scary place to be in, isn't it? And how do you know, knowing or having a feeling that you're the one slowing down the whole thing that you started to have the impact that you wanted to have, yet hiring other people, giving up some of that control along the way, how as a founder or as an individual, would you know that you're at that stage?
michelle kvello (05:47.872)
So I think, look, for a lot of founders, it's when it really starts to feel hard and it starts to feel not fun. That's a lot of what the founders that we're working with are starting to feel. You know, we work with a lot of very self-aware founders who have well-developed business networks and speak to other business owners and quite often get that tap on the shoulder from kind of their friend who's been in a business or sold or scaled a business to go,
Uh-uh, you're going to stop doing that. You're really going to stop doing that. Or they've got investment and they've got an advisory board whether that's formal or informal. And the board is going, you can't operate like this anymore. Because, you know, going back to the selling a business thing, you know, a founder reliant business can't be sold because you are the entire business.
And so putting the structures and processes around that business, so it becomes a business, not a house for your job, is the difference in those businesses between those two stages.
Rebecca (06:58.762)
And so once you've got to that level, I'm just trying to put myself in the mindset of people listening, but also how I was when I was going through the journey. You know, we've got you there as a CFO advisor now. So coming in, that's more of a consultancy role within an organization. How does that role plan out and play out inside a business when you're coming in and coming in from an advisory perspective?
michelle kvello (07:26.912)
Yeah, so we basically work with founders, usually on a retainer level, and it can be from a little to a lot, but the piece of finance that we help them with, is generally they've got their tax accountant, they've got their bookkeeper, or kind of day-to-day transactional person who looks at their finances, but what they don't have is the finance person with the commercial and strategic hat on.
the person that's going to look at their numbers and go, okay, great, we've got numbers. Now what? So what? What do we do? What are those numbers telling us about the business today and about where the business is going to go? So we work in a very consultative advisory way with those founders to help support their business goals and to help map out, well, if you do this, then this happens. If you do that, then this may happen.
and work out with them financially kind of what their plan A is, but also what their plan B is, what their plan C is. Because if we've all learned anything over the last couple of years is that things don't always go according to plan. And so then what do you do after that? Yeah.
Rebecca (08:35.946)
No. Yeah. Okay, so, and I'm going to keep going. Go on.
michelle kvello (08:42.38)
But...
michelle kvello (08:46.79)
No, no, you go, you go.
Rebecca (08:48.35)
No, no, I was just going to go, well, okay, so that's sort of the way that you work with them. I know if I was looking back and we've had several conversations within the network, within the Champagne Lounge, it's come up a few times actually in the last few months. It's a case of, well, what do I ask, you know, as a business owners, if it's something new you're walking into or a new person you're bringing in, even asking your accountant the right questions to get out what you need from them in the right way.
is often something that is either shied away from or, you know, just put in the too hard basket of, oh, they'll sort it out, it'll be fine. So what are the things that people need to be asking their accountants or their CFO advisors to make the most of, you know, the advice that's there around them?
michelle kvello (09:36.66)
Yeah, well, what they need to be working with that CFO advisor about, and it is different to the conversation with their tax accountant or with their bookkeeper. The tax accountant and the bookkeeper is about, the tax accountant is structurally, am I doing things in the most tax efficient way to get the most, I guess, using non-tax, the most juice out of the money that I'm creating within the business, right?
with your bookkeeper or accountant, it's like, am I compliant? And is my data complete, right? Is it showing me everything at the right time? Is my data clean? With a CFO, what you're asking is, what are these numbers mean about what's going to happen in the next six months, 12 months, two years time? And if I'm telling you as a business owner,
These are my goals for the business. What do I need to be watching within my business to make that happen? What are the metrics within my business? What do my margins look like? With a lot of founders that we work with, is this normal? Is this what's supposed to be happening with my numbers? Is this like, you know, and you know, I laugh, but a lot of what we do is that founder support in terms of is this normal? Is what I'm going through.
going to get me where I need to go or not? Because it can be very overwhelming. There can be a lot of, you know, it's a lot of jargon in the industry for sure. But what we've come in and primarily focus on first of all is how clean is the financial data we're looking at? Does the business owner know what their margins are? So most businesses are working with kind of, you know, a couple of different products or services.
Do you know where you're actually making your money? Because every dollar isn't worth the same. So with some dollars that you generate in your revenue, you might be making 50% on other dollars of revenue, you might be making five. So you need to know the difference between those two things and not throw everything behind that 5%.
Rebecca (11:51.946)
And so it's making educated smart decisions about where to put the energy. And I guess the team and grow a product or amend a service so that you're actually making the most profit as you possibly can make out of it, I would assume.
michelle kvello (12:08.044)
Yeah. And also, you know, that, that energy question, you know, comment is really important that you can think about the energy that a business is generating, right? How do you, how do you most potently capture that, that energy? You think about revenue as energy, right? How do you keep as much of that as possible within the business and not kind of have it leak out in where, ways that are inefficient or not what you expected?
Rebecca (12:35.082)
Yeah, 100%. And so in your journey over the last 12 years, what have been some of the, I know you can't share specific clients when you're sharing stories, but going through some of these conversations and growing some of these businesses, what have been some of the highs where you're like, oh my gosh, that was amazing to be a part of, but equally what are being some of the lows along the journey? Cause we can't picture all of this as being a rosy, it's gonna be great once you get a CFO on board. It's still a roller coaster of business, right? So what have been some of the...
michelle kvello (13:04.521)
Yeah, that's amazing.
Rebecca (13:04.578)
The highs and lows of the career for you.
michelle kvello (13:09.372)
And look, for me, kind of the standout highs have always been when we help a business, help a founder sell their business. It's a very intense process for a founder and we, we approach it very much in terms of, you know, the, the practical preparation, but also the mental preparation for a founder. Um, and, and we kind of have those pillars around, you know, the practical, you know, is your, is your data ready for the process, those kind of practical steps?
is your operations of your business ready and are you ready? We work with a lot of founders that are like, no, this is a business, this is a business, I'm not emotionally attached to my business. And you get halfway through a process and you know, it's very personal. So helping a business owner through that roller coaster has been some of the most fulfilling times that I've certainly had as a business owner.
And the flip side of that is when, you know, we've had business owners come to us that have a decent business model, but they've come to us six months too late. Um, and you know, when you, when you've, when you've run out of cash and you've run out of leverage, there are very few, there are very few directions you can go in, your options are limited.
And, you know, that that's heartbreaking when you kind of think, God, it's kind of like going to the doctor, right? You wish they'd come to you when they just had that niggle in their elbow as opposed to when you have to chop their elbow off. So so yeah, that that's hard, particularly when you've got a, you know, a great founder with a business model that could have worked and they've just come to you that little bit too late. That's I find that really hard.
Rebecca (14:46.956)
Yeah.
Rebecca (14:59.358)
Yeah, I can imagine. And so that leads me to ask, what are the red flags or even green flags, amber flags, they can be whatever color you want really, that founders need to be watching for so that they don't come to you too late? Like I'm assuming that the founders that come and work with you either want to build a real scale up business or they're wanting to build to sell and move on. So what are the things, at what point should they be coming to you?
michelle kvello (15:15.211)
Yeah.
michelle kvello (15:21.46)
Yeah.
michelle kvello (15:26.236)
Look, for, and I'll use an example of a business that has, you know, come to us. We are starting to work with them. I wish they'd come to us six months later, but it's not kind of unsalvageable yet. Is that they came to us because they wanted us to help them sell the business. We started looking at the business and they had made some investments in the prior year that hadn't worked out. And so their financials were not in a good shape. And.
I, the conversation I was having with one of the CFOs on my team that's working directly with them is like, God, I wish they'd come to us when they were thinking about doing this new thing. Cause they were, they were investing in an area of the business that they hadn't invested in before, um, and hadn't done, hadn't done the scenario planning around it, hadn't worked out the milestones and when, um, you know, what, what the go, no goes were at certain points within that project. And so they, they'd
They'd eventually pulled the pin, but they pulled the pin after spending an awful lot of money on it and getting into quite a lot of debt. So one of the, one of the key points, um, when thinking about working with us or someone like us is if you're trying to do something new that the business hasn't done before, and that might be a new product or service that might be doubling down your investment in a certain area. It might be going overseas. We work with a lot of businesses that want to put those, that first foot overseas.
So that's kind of like the green flag, like come to us when you've got that great idea and you wanna work out what that might look like financially and kind of what are some of the guardrails you wanna put around it. The red flag example is, if you as a business owner are starting to put off paying people and you are starting to manage, you are starting to spend so much of your time.
managing, shall I pay this bill or this bill? And do I need to go into talk to the ATO about, you know, maybe deferring this payment? And more and more of your time is getting sucked into that kind of not helpful use of your time. You as a business owner need to be focused on the strategy of the business and the performance of the business, not playing peas and shells with invoices. And so if you start to feel that you're doing that, that's when you need to ask for help.
Rebecca (17:46.63)
Oh, there were two fantastic examples there. Like I couldn't have, I couldn't have asked you to articulate that in a better way that people could understand like where are those flags were because, um, having been in the industry now or in business for 12 years, I can say 12 now and go through the ups and downs and see different business owners do different things and do it in different ways. Like I think this conversation has really highlighted what people should be looking for, how they can go about growing and scaling to that next level. And I know.
michelle kvello (18:03.706)
Yeah.
Rebecca (18:15.97)
that there's a lot of learnings in it, but there's some really tangible examples that I'm sure some listeners are going, oh, that sounds a bit like me. So I hope this conversation has been super helpful in that way. Now, Michelle, I don't let people leave the podcast without asking them how they celebrate the wins in their business and how they track their milestones. And the reason I ask that is because as business owners, we, especially as female business owners,
We jump to the next thing and the next thing and the next shiny thing, and we never actually sit and take stock of the things we've done. We sit and celebrate and go, yay, we nailed that. So what was the last big milestone you achieved in your business and how did you go about celebrating it?
michelle kvello (19:04.576)
Oh, this is a really good question because I have, you know, and this is why I love the champagne lounge because that whole post-its on champagne bottles spoke to me at a deep level. And, you know, I'd like so many people, I've always been quite bad at celebrating the successes. You kind of agonize over the losses and then you don't celebrate the successes. But when I started doing more and more speaking and I started traveling more,
I had my, and this is not in any way sponsored, but I had my eyes on, I don't even know, the July luggage. Have you seen the ads for that pop up? So, I was doing a bit of traveling and kind of just, you know, put my big girl pants on and started speaking. And I, at the end of the quarter, I gifted myself the July carry-on luggage in lavender, which I love.
Rebecca (19:42.074)
Yes, I love that luggage. Oh, yes.
Rebecca (20:02.922)
Beautiful. I do love my July luggage. So yeah, you know what? I love that you've done that because it's something so useful, right? But that will bring you joy every time you use it, which I think is a beautiful way of celebrating a success.
michelle kvello (20:06.956)
I'm going to go to bed.
Rebecca (20:21.298)
I love that. So if you see Michelle around the airport with her beautiful lavender suitcase around the airports of Australia and beyond, be sure to say hello and high five her on that purchase. I'm sure she'll be loving gliding that through the airport as much as I love gliding mine through. Michelle, thank you so much for coming on today's show. I feel we've really deep dived a lot into some really top level.
michelle kvello (20:21.968)
Yeah, and champagne. Champagne is also very good.
michelle kvello (20:28.236)
Thanks for watching!
Rebecca (20:49.278)
accounting stuff that maybe a lot of listeners hadn't heard of before or really needed some clarity on. So thank you so much for sharing.
michelle kvello (20:58.68)
Oh, so welcome. Thank you for having me.
